changes for the better sometimes?

Bodysnatcher · 27 Jun 2006, 13:26 (Ref:1642576)

From a point raised in the DTM Brands thread, but I think a new thread is better to stop the original going too far off topic

thanks for the information Gerry, I think I'm getting a clearer picture now of how post 5 will look..

Sadly, much as we (that's we, motorsports enthusiasts, whether marshals or addicts a la Elio) hate to see changes, some have been long overdue at Brands. JCBs or the like are neccesary if you have an overreliance on gravel traps for protecting your customers.
A parking area behind Druids for the lost souls is very good move. Far too ofen we require red flags or safety car for the slight mistake that has put a car slightly in that gravel. It is regrettable though that one of the best spectating areas may have been changed in such a way that it's appeal has been reduced.

Likewise, some sort of debris fence screen protecting observer's boxes is not a wholly bad thing. Too often observers can be concentrating hard on something downtrack and be unaware of what's hurtling towards them.
However, putting fencing on the armco like the Cart mafia demanded actually made things harder for marshalling in the normal UK style, which is why I no longer find post 3 a challenge as a course marshal or IO, it’s far too antiseptic. Non PC as it may be to say it, I find it necessary to feel that things are a bit dangerous in order to give my best. It’s far to easy to be blasé about the risks when you’re behind those fences.

As an observer though, it's still a demanding post, but that damn fence means your line of sight is always compromised. And I’m too short arsed to see over that quad or 5? layer Armco. Honestly, I have to hop up and down to see bits of the track clearly

You may have spotted the inconsistancy that I would like a bit of protection round the observer's area at 5, but hate it at 3
The problem is in the angle y'see. Put a smallish screen between me and the oncoming and I'm allright. Say like at 90 degrees to the track. Put it parallel to the track though and it's difficult to get a clear view.

archaic gold · 27 Jun 2006, 14:01 (Ref:1642606)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

The problem is in the angle y'see. Put a smallish screen between me and the oncoming and I'm allright. Say like at 90 degrees to the track. Put it parallel to the track though and it's difficult to get a clear view.

As I said, there is only about 3 metres (EEC Measurements) of Safety fencing angled at the new Post 5, so an Observer can stand at either end and basically have an unrestricted view of oncoming cars, rather like Post 23.
Pots 3 is a pain in the proverbial!! Not only Pots in the way, but heavy horizontal cables. Recently, I had a FF go into the tyre wall in the far corner, on Testing. I could not see where or any update on the Driver's satae. In response to Control, I had to run down to the nearest gap, go trackside whilst cars were still racing to see the situation and report back for a "STOP". Do not worry, Alisdair, I am working on this one as well!!!!

Stoowert · 27 Jun 2006, 17:09 (Ref:1642749)

I know our brave Mr Palmer is trying to tidy up Brands, but flower pots at post 3? Over my bed dody!

As for debris fencing, I think the nature of recent accidents dictate more protection for marshals and the great unwashed. I don't how many drivers, marshals and spectators have been hurt badly, or worse, over the years but it does seem the balance is shifting.
You may poo-poo the somewhat drachonian actions of "The CART mafia" but don't forget, they run mainly on tempory street circuits in the US where everyone is a lot closer to the action. You may not be surprised to hear that US marshals/workers make very similar complaits at Long Beach!

It's a shame part of the spectator viewing will be lost to a "car park" but seeing how many flock to watch a damaged car return on a flat-bed, they should be happy to watch the FF 1600 pile up in the dead car area!

I do think we need to take a look at the number of gravel traps around. So much time could be saved, and competitors races/qualifying could be extended if they were tarmac'd over, and drivers warned to stay between the white lines....

Hepatic · 27 Jun 2006, 17:19 (Ref:1642760)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoowert

I do think we need to take a look at the number of gravel traps around. So much time could be saved, and competitors races/qualifying could be extended if they were tarmac'd over, and drivers warned to stay between the white lines....

True, but then you get to the silverstone situation where drivers like Plato just use it as part of the racing line. It's a difficult situation to deal with, but personally i'd like to see (where space allowed) a situation where an "unfavourable" surface is on the edge of the track (grass / curbs / moat

etc) to dissuade the drivers from straying, then have the tarmac afterwards to catch the accidental excursions. That way it's kinda like the best of both worlds.

archaic gold · 27 Jun 2006, 20:03 (Ref:1642883)

I agree! Larger more rough kerbs. It was requested that the area between Post 10 & 22 (Indy) was an elongated gravel trap, but it was, as I UNDERSTAND it, turned down by the MSA. Now cars "lose-it" at Surtees and go skidding across the wt grass into the tyre wall at the exit of the GP loop!! Can't win.
Sorry about the Plant Pots at 3 - dissleistxx typing, Stoowert!!!!

Eddy V · 27 Jun 2006, 21:19 (Ref:1642949)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

And I’m too short arsed to see over that quad or 5? layer Armco. Honestly, I have to hop up and down to see bits of the track clearly

Y'er not the only one Al.

TwoSheds · 28 Jun 2006, 12:45 (Ref:1643394)

And when putting up debris fencing please don't forget the flaggies among us, we do need SPACE to wave our flags (some more than others, as some of my co-workers have found to their cost!)

archaic gold · 28 Jun 2006, 13:59 (Ref:1643441)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoSheds

And when putting up debris fencing please don't forget the flaggies among us, we do need SPACE to wave our flags (some more than others, as some of my co-workers have found to their cost!)

As I have said, there is a space of at least One Metre (One Yard!!) between the Armco and the new debris fencing at Druids!

**Stephen Green** · 29 Jun 2006, 08:14 (Ref:1643959)

There is a problem for the circuits when replacing gravel traps with tarmac run off's, and that is 'what do you do for bike meetings'?

All circuits these days have to cater for both disciplines and while the MSA may like or support the idea of tarmac run offs, the FIM don't. So the circuits are caught between the two bodies.

At Brands Hatch we are still very fortunate to be able to get 'close to the action' as spectators, by that I mean the track comes close to the spectator areas. We tend to feel that any encroachment of that is the thin end of the wedge. However, regardless of 'car parks' and the like, Brands Hatch still offers some of the best viewing of all the circuits I have been to. The improvements are just that, improvements, and Al is right to say they are long overdue in many cases. Maybe one answer would be to put some form of raised stand at Druids to help the spectator viewing? Why not drop JP a note with sensible suggestions, he is always open to new ideas?

Bodysnatcher · 29 Jun 2006, 08:51 (Ref:1643992)

I know these changes have been forced on the circuit at short notice, but the easiest solution would maybe have been to use the excavated material to form a raised bank.

Hey, we could end up looking like Eurospeedway Lausitzring - apologies to Andre und die andren - spectators 50 feet above the track, looking down.

archaic gold · 29 Jun 2006, 15:39 (Ref:1644240)

[QUOTE=Bodysnatcher]I know these changes have been forced on the circuit at short notice, but the easiest solution would maybe have been to use the excavated material to form a raised bank.

Come on my friend, you know Brands very well! Not that much soil was excavated, and if I can jog your memory, there is quite a steep 45 degree drop behind the existing Spectator Bank, leading to a Car Park, Toilets and Food Outlets!! It would have taken shedfuls of excavated material to build that bank up any more. Back to a Grandstand is the best solution, as Steve!

archaic gold · 29 Jun 2006, 15:42 (Ref:1644241)

I spent twelve years in the Royal Air Force and watched, (and not get involved) in everything that did not move get painted for the Annual AOC's Inspection of a RAF Station, but even I can not remember a banking being sprayed with green paint to look like grass. If you do not believe me, wherever you are just take a quick look at Post One!!!!!

archaic gold · 29 Jun 2006, 15:57 (Ref:1644258)

Lastly, you will be pleased to note; the improvements to Druids are now complete. The final Spectator Fencing was being put up today (Thursday).
I have to say that it would appear the improvements will greatly enhance the smooth running of any car meeting. There is now a facility to "park" more than one car with an acompanying Manito/JCB lift vehicle.
The new debris fencing, as I have said earlier, is reasonably Marshal friendly, with space to operate both by the Observer, Flag and Incident Marshals, and safer. I can assure you I was Observer there for a TVR Tuscan round there once with five parked Tuscans, and an instruction from Bernie of BRSCC fame to Post 4 & 5 to run the remainder of the Race under Yellow Flags for safety.
It is now hoped that Post 3 will also be modified in a similiar manner for 2007. Hopefully, not speaking out of turn, and if so, Sorry, we can ask the MSA to authorise live "snatching" as at that other Midland land of pleasure. This should liven-up Racing; less Red Flags; less Safety Cars!
Regrettably, we shall not have an Observers Box at Post 5 for this weekend, but watch this space; but a telephone has been installed in a weatherproof box (not that we shall need that this weeken, except to save it melting!!!)

Bodysnatcher · 29 Jun 2006, 16:14 (Ref:1644268)

Thanks for the update Gerry, see you in the morning.
knowing my luck I'll end up on 5.....

archaic gold · 29 Jun 2006, 16:29 (Ref:1644282)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

Thanks for the update Gerry, see you in the morning.
knowing my luck I'll end up on 5.....

Could be worse! Post 13A!!!!!

archaic gold · 29 Jun 2006, 16:31 (Ref:1644290)

Sorry, forgot to add - nice new galvanised iron gate to allow Marshals free access onto Post from the Spectators area - saves squeezing through that gap!!!

**Stephen Green** · 29 Jun 2006, 18:03 (Ref:1644338)

If your lucks really out Al you will be on post 3 with me!

spottymarshal · 29 Jun 2006, 20:47 (Ref:1644427)

Quote:

Originally Posted by archaic gold

Could be worse! Post 13A!!!!!

Nothing wrong with 13A, I was there for the WTCC and at least got some shelter during the heavy rain

.

It's nice to have a quiet spot sometimes

, but someones got to do it incase it all goes wrong

.

**Woolley** · 29 Jun 2006, 21:13 (Ref:1644450)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

If your lucks really out Al you will be on post 3 with me!

Or at Westfield with me...

I know, I know!

garybirch · 29 Jun 2006, 21:32 (Ref:1644464)

Sorry to be missing this one. I loved Brands when I lived only 10 mins away, now from Taunton it's a little farther!

Instead of gravel traps, have the tarmac...but... put stingers along the sides of the white lines! That'll keep them inside, and if they don't, we've got lots of tarmac to park them on!
:-)