Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Still not convinced Honda will join LMP1 with a full factory team.

Nor am I.



L.P.

[gustavobamba]

With the right balance of performance WEC could accept until 5 brand´s.

Ballast penalty´s and reverse grid´s !!!!! Just a stupid thought!!!

But Le Mans stay´s untouched.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by CTD

I'm just fearing... Can we have too many manufactures?
We risk someone finishing poorly, and by doing that scaring the board members of that marque away from Le Mans for a significant time.
Theres only room for 3 cars at the LMP1 podium, so with more than 3 manufactures, 1 manufacture will stand in the shadow - gaining nothing from their investment.

I don't get that calculation. You can have that situation already with three if one is considerably worse than other two, so why is three the ideal number?

It's supposed to be a professional sport where everybody does not win. For far too long the situation was that a manufacturer was pretty much guaranteed to finish on the podium unless it DFN'd. That mentality must be going away now that is no longer the case.

With "too many manufacturers" I would be more concerned about increased costs (not the seconds, but the tenths) than bad loser crybabies.

[TF110]

More manufacturers might mean more exposure, money, perhaps even more races. That gives teams more chances to win. No one knows who will win Le Mans either. A 4, 5 manufacturer battle for the overall at Le Mans hasn't been seen in 15 years.

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Still not convinced Honda will join LMP1 with a full factory team.

Same here. If I'm not mistaken, the only time Honda has entered cars at Le Mans under their factory banner was the NSX GT cars of the mid-90s. Nissan, Toyota and even Mazda have far more history pursuing success at LM; Honda have historically not been interested in sports cars as F1 has been their recurrent love and aspiration. I'll believe in a change of philosophy at Honda when I see it.

In any case, Honda should really fix their Super GT program before trying new pastures. Their WTCC program hasn't been much of a success either. There's plenty of in-house work to be done as it is.

[TF110]

Touring cars arent a hard fix. Super GT results will come with success ballast hurting other teams, remember they take a weight penalty of 50kg(?) afaik for being MR while Lexus/Nissan are FR. I want Honda back at LeMans, and imo, theyll be there with at least the NSX if hybrid tech is allowed in GT.

[Christian Mogami]

Originally Posted by TF110

Touring cars arent a hard fix. Super GT results will come with success ballast hurting other teams, remember they take a weight penalty of 50kg(?) afaik for being MR while Lexus/Nissan are FR. I want Honda back at LeMans, and imo, theyll be there with at least the NSX if hybrid tech is allowed in GT.

NSX-GT weight penalty is 70kg and the tires they run are design for FR,not MR chassis.So the NSX-GT can't get heat in the hard front tires and wearing out the too soft rear tires that gives it wicked understeer everywhere!

[TF110]

Thats right, 70 not 50! Theyll have to work with the tire makers to fix those issues.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by deggis

I don't get that calculation. You can have that situation already with three if one is considerably worse than other two, so why is three the ideal number?

It's supposed to be a professional sport where everybody does not win. For far too long the situation was that a manufacturer was pretty much guaranteed to finish on the podium unless it DFN'd. That mentality must be going away now that is no longer the case.

With "too many manufacturers" I would be more concerned about increased costs (not the seconds, but the tenths) than bad loser crybabies.

You can have the same situation with 1 manufacture, running 3 cars.
My point is that with 4 or more manufactures, there is no possible way that you can have more than 3 different cars on the podium. Meaning someone will miss the glory all together.

I also think you misunderstand my point, it isn't "us" who are a part of the sport (as fans), that's the problem. The problem lies with the people who pays for everything. For them the only reason to go racing is marketing, and you don't get much marketing from not being on the podium, ending up chocking the project.
Nissan in the late 90's being a good example of this.

[NaBUru38]

The Argentine Super TC2000 has five works teams: Toyota, Renault, Fiat, Peugeot and Chevrolet, totalling 19 entries. Back in 2010 there were also Honda and Ford for a total 23 entries.

It's possible, but no easy. It depends on parity and media coverage.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

The Argentine Super TC2000 has five works teams: Toyota, Renault, Fiat, Peugeot and Chevrolet, totalling 19 entries. Back in 2010 there were also Honda and Ford for a total 23 entries.

It's possible, but no easy. It depends on parity and media coverage.

And how many races there is to win .
Let's not forget that the only "real" price to win with a Sportscar is the Le Mans 24hours Trophy (not neglecting WEC, but the prestige still lies in Le Mans)

[TF110]

The wec is still an FIA world championship. It should have prestige added to it with the big names involved this year. If Nissan joins next year and theres 4 manufacturers, thats more factory teamcar manufacturers involved than F1!

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

NSX-GT weight penalty is 70kg and the tires they run are design for FR,not MR chassis.So the NSX-GT can't get heat in the hard front tires and wearing out the too soft rear tires that gives it wicked understeer everywhere!

They have issues far more serious that that. The monocoque is the root of all of Honda's problems. Between the engine cooling issue and suspension problems at Okayama, Honda's in for a rough season

[Christian Mogami]

Originally Posted by aneesh99

They have issues far more serious that that. The monocoque is the root of all of Honda's problems. Between the engine cooling issue and suspension problems at Okayama, Honda's in for a rough season

Yep!

But look at all the info their gaining for F1 because about everything that can go wrong with a program has.

The NSX-GT's engine bay is pretty much a 1000+degree coal fired pizza pie brick oven!With that very wide SGT/DTM common tub,they can't get air to the engine bay.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by Mike E

So Audi is already developing a car to GT+ regs? I wonder how much they can actually do?

I also heard that comment about Honda. The suggestion (from Sam Collins?) was that more than engine development was going on. A bit cryptic.

Seems to go alright!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMkAzYahkQc

[Koenigsegg]

I might be a bit of a pessimist, but I'm actually worried about the 2015 ELMS P2 class. If the 4th P1 manufacturer is indeed true and Perrinn will do P1, then all of the P1 entries are set to do Le Mans. Due to the FIA WEC automatic entry. If it's also true that the low amount of P2's in FIA WEC is one-off and we can expect more in 2015, then where does that leave ELMS P2 full season entries at Le Mans?

ACO probably wants to keep a 50/50 balance between prototypes and GT's at Le Mans. Audi 2x, Porsche 2x, Toyota 2x, Rebellion 2x, Perrinn 1x, 4th manufacturer 2x and perhaps Lotus 1x, is 12 P1 entries. Let's put the FIA WEC P2 numbers on 8. That's 20 automatic prototype entries for Le Mans already. That leaves 8 spots for P2's from ELMS, AsLMS, TUSC and let's not forget G56. Not a lot of spots if you ask me.

Knowing that a lot of ELMS budgets rely on a Le Mans entry, I can't help but wonder how many P2's are left in ELMS next year.

[JoestForEver]

Originally Posted by Koenigsegg

I might be a bit of a pessimist, but I'm actually worried about the 2015 ELMS P2 class. If the 4th P1 manufacturer is indeed true and Perrinn will do P1, then all of the P1 entries are set to do Le Mans. Due to the FIA WEC automatic entry. If it's also true that the low amount of P2's in FIA WEC is one-off and we can expect more in 2015, then where does that leave ELMS P2 full season entries at Le Mans?

ACO probably wants to keep a 50/50 balance between prototypes and GT's at Le Mans. Audi 2x, Porsche 2x, Toyota 2x, Rebellion 2x, Perrinn 1x, 4th manufacturer 2x and perhaps Lotus 1x, is 12 P1 entries. Let's put the FIA WEC P2 numbers on 8. That's 20 automatic prototype entries for Le Mans already. That leaves 8 spots for P2's from ELMS, AsLMS, TUSC and let's not forget G56. Not a lot of spots if you ask me.

Knowing that a lot of ELMS budgets rely on a Le Mans entry, I can't help but wonder how many P2's are left in ELMS next year.

Considering the P2 category this year in WEC with only four cars. I doubt there will be any P2 left in the WEC next year.:P SMP might not be as financially robust as we believe and Oak Gdrive is counting on Rusinov's Russia money as well. The only one left is KCMG.Thanks to Obama and EU politics BS, they are killing Russian motorsport.

[GT6]

If the new garages come into existance that could add another 2 or 4 cars to the grid, and these would be LMP rather than gt's

[TF110]

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

Considering the P2 category this year in WEC with only four cars. I doubt there will be any P2 left in the WEC next year.:P SMP might not be as financially robust as we believe and Oak Gdrive is counting on Rusinov's Russia money as well. The only one left is KCMG.Thanks to Obama and EU politics BS, they are killing Russian motorsport.

Strakka will join from Le Mans. Sure there will be more next year if not sooner.

[carbon_titanium]

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

Thanks to Obama and EU politics BS, they are killing Russian motorsport.

Well... situation is JUST a little more complicated than that...

[Maelochs]

Lol, yeah ... it's not like these governments start wars just to hurt racing.

[carbon_titanium]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Lol, yeah ... it's not like these governments start wars just to hurt racing.

could be a plot for a next call of duty... motorsport warfare

[Hendrix]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Lol, yeah ... it's not like these governments start wars just to hurt racing.

Of course they do, just look at WW2, it was obviously a plot to destroy European motorsports.

[Deleted]

It was a devious ploy to allow following century's biannual Le Mans Legends 1949-1965 support race to cover very specific timeframe without further explanations. Clearly

[gustavobamba]

If, i repeat IF, Nissan will go to LMP1 next year, would any manufacture follow them.

With BMW only in DTM i believe and "wish" they will be the next players in "Le Mans".