Bloodhound SSC 1050mph

[TEAM78]

I know it isnt directly related to motorsport but these guys are after our own hearts in going faster. I wonder how they will achive it i.e what spec the car needs to be as from what I read they suffered from the rivets often failed on Thrust SSC.
I hope Race Car Engineering do a feature on this as its absolutely awesome

Is there anyway we can get involed in this?

[tristancliffe]

Donating a couple of million would get you on the project. Failing that some experience in the land speed record attempt world would be good. They won't want hangers-on in the team.

I read, on F1-Live, that the engine has two get engines, one from a Eurofighter. And the engines are fed by using a V12 out of the Superleague formula cars as the fuel pump!!!!! That might be rubbish for all I know, but it sounds impressive - a V12 fuel pump

[JamesH]

The V12 is to pump the peroxide to the hybrid rocket engine, fuel to the Eurojet, and run the hydraulics to the EuroJet. I think it's also used for starting the engine.

Rocket is used for initial speed up, then the jet use to give the throttle up/down required. Cannot use jet at full power from stationary as it sucks in too much debris (need to be going > 100mph before giving it the big right foot). Hybrid rocket engines are not really throttleable, just on/off.

I am sure they will have something similar to ThrustSSC - a club with merchandise which funds the project. They need £10mill. I followed it closely all those years ago.

0-1000mph in 40s. Hynrid at 25000lb thrust, Eurojet is 20000lb or so.

Nice one.

More info here http://www.bloodhoundssc.com/

James

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Rocket is used for initial speed up, then the jet use to give the throttle up/down required. Cannot use jet at full power from stationary as it sucks in too much debris (need to be going > 100mph before giving it the big right foot). Hybrid rocket engines are not really throttleable, just on/off.

James, having visited the link you posted, it seems the JET engine will be used from launch to 300 mph. Then the ROCKET will be ignited, so both the JET and the ROCKET are providing thrust. When the intended speed of 1050 mph is reached, the ROCKET will be stopped (presumably they will stop pumping the peroxide?) but the jet 'will continue burning for a few seconds'

I noticed the press/media have been raving about the G forces involved. Certainly the acceleration Gs are impressive (2G+) with deceleration at nearly 3Gs - but deceleration in F1 is far higher, - isn't it?

[tristancliffe]

Yes, in braking F1 cars can peak at 5g I believe, but the SSC will provide sustained g. That is much more impressive!

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by tristancliffe

Yes, in braking F1 cars can peak at 5g I believe, but the SSC will provide sustained g. That is much more impressive!

It is indeed impressive.

My point is that I think that the media are getting a bit carried away about what the driver will have to tolerate, bearing in mind the loads endured by F1 drivers during the course of a Grand Prix - 3G lateral is not uncommon in corners, I believe- and I have seen reports of 4.5 lateral G. Also, I am pretty sure that Andy Green has experienced far greater G forces when he was a pilot in the RAF.

[JamesH]

More impressive is that fact that after the 40s run, the car will have traveled over 10 miles....

I'll have to check that order of engine firing - sure the report I read said rocket then jet, which I thought was odd at the time.

For anyone near Coventry Car Museum, its worth going in the ThrustSSC simulator. Give some idea of the forces involved and how scary they are to drive at the speeds involved, and how big Andy Green tezzies must be to get in the thing in the first place.

[JamesH]

Nope, can't find where is read the hybrid was fired first. Oh well. Must just have misread it...

On a related note (well, tis got rocket engines), for those interested in the suborbital tourist market, check this out...

http://spacefellowship.com/News/?p=7130

James

[Alex Laidlaw]

Originally Posted by phoenix

It is indeed impressive.

My point is that I think that the media are getting a bit carried away about what the driver will have to tolerate, bearing in mind the loads endured by F1 drivers during the course of a Grand Prix - 3G lateral is not uncommon in corners, I believe- and I have seen reports of 4.5 lateral G. Also, I am pretty sure that Andy Green has experienced far greater G forces when he was a pilot in the RAF.

The duration of the forces will be much longer though. F1 drivers are probably exposed to the highest peak G forces anywhere in the world once you account for the fact that unlike fighter pilots (and presumably the driver of this car) they do not have pressure suits, having said that they only experience very brief forces because an F1 car only takes a couple of seconds to stop and most race circuits do not feature long high speed, high force, bends. Also note that an F1 car could never sustain its peak G force figures for any meaningful amount of time in real world conditions.

[JamesH]

I have experienced about 10 perhaps more G, but it was for a very short time (barriers at Mallory park). Certainly wouldn't want it for more than 100th of a second!! My insides wouldn't be the same again!

The duration of the G force is very important...

[newsfromthepit]

Besides the obvious affects on the drivers, this must be incredibly hard on the machine if for any amount of time. They'll soon go through cars like tires

[chapmanite]

Originally Posted by Alex Laidlaw

The duration of the forces will be much longer though. F1 drivers are probably exposed to the highest peak G forces anywhere in the world once you account for the fact that unlike fighter pilots (and presumably the driver of this car) they do not have pressure suits, having said that they only experience very brief forces because an F1 car only takes a couple of seconds to stop and most race circuits do not feature long high speed, high force, bends. Also note that an F1 car could never sustain its peak G force figures for any meaningful amount of time in real world conditions.

I wish I had more figures for this, but here are a couple thoughts. G-suits were suggested to give F-86 drivers a 1g advantage over their MiG-15 counterparts in Korea. That said, an advantage to the F1 drivers is their seating position; I've slept more upright! This shortens the vertical distance between the heart and the head, meaning it's easier to keep the head supplied with blood. Fighter pilots meanwhile are pretty much upright. All that said, an F1 driver's body is taking a pretty constant pounding from the road, making it harder and harder for the body to resist the other strains it's getting. Meanwhile, the forces in going for the land speed record will be extreme, but not nearly as long as, say, an eight minute shuttle launch.

Given my choice though, it's be the F1 with an extra inch of padding....and air-con.

[nycuk]

Does anyone know by which principles they intend to actually keep this thing on the ground at 1000mph+? I know little about LSR attempts but would assume that conventional methods of generating downforce (ie wings) would cause way too much drag. They must be using sophisticated aerodynamics of some sort - any ideas guys?

[JamesH]

Small computer controlled winglets on the front to keep it vertically stable. Smaller than usually employed rear fin as simulation have shown the design is quite directionally stable already.

James

[Machin]

Originally Posted by nycuk

Does anyone know by which principles they intend to actually keep this thing on the ground at 1000mph+?

Anyone got an answer for this then:- Thrust driven vehicles don't need their tyres to be in contact with the ground to provide the power (obviously) -infact the least contact as possible is best as it reduces the rolling resistance, and the LSR rules don't seem to mandate steering by wheels (i.e. it could be by control surfaces... rudder, etc), but given that this is a LAND speed record, how do the organisers ensure that it is conducted on land, and not simply a very low altitude rocket????! It could be done easily enough of course, by recording suspension loads... but do the organisers actually mandate and check this? Again I can't find anything on the FIA website within their rules to suggest they do.....

[JamesH]

If Bloodhound breaks 1000mph is will also break the record for low flying aircraft (994mph I think).

LSR cars needs to have 4 wheels, and...er, that's about it really. Anything goes. It would be safer to be on the ground than a low flying aircraft/rocket.

In fact Thrust SSC tracks show it did leave the ground for a 100ft or so long section.

James

[Machin]

Originally Posted by JamesH

In fact Thrust SSC tracks show it did leave the ground for a 100ft or so long section.

So it didn't actually cover the measured mile distance on the ground?! Surely that means it didn't achieve the LAND speed record?!

[F.O.F.]

Originally Posted by JamesH

In fact Thrust SSC tracks show it did leave the ground for a 100ft or so long section.

that run was disallowed for exactly this reason AFAIK

Originally Posted by Machin

So it didn't actually cover the measured mile distance on the ground?! Surely that means it didn't achieve the LAND speed record?!

Again,AFAIK,it did cover the mile on the ground for the record run.

Personally,I can't wait to see if it works! I think it's all a response to an American group who have basically cut the wings off a F-104 starfighter and fitted wheels and little canards on the nose.They claim their "car" will be capable of 1000mph and I think it's already been run up to 400 or so mph.
It's good to see the British response is something a little more sophisticated.

[JamesH]

The Starfighter crashed a lot as a plane - I wonder if it will be any better as a car?

Having looked at the website, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to drive it!

[JohnD]

Since a while ago, an F-15 lost a wing but could be flown home and landed, I'd be worried about any wingless jet fighter staying on the ground.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-_EXtBEaBbs

John

[Hubble]

Originally Posted by Machin

So it didn't actually cover the measured mile distance on the ground?! Surely that means it didn't achieve the LAND speed record?!

Bear in mind that it only need to keep the wheels on the ground for the measured mile part of the run, approx 4.5 miles from the start and finish

[jedrinck]

I just read the discussion about g forces on the driver and the comparisons with jet pilots. The major difference is the direction of the forces in relation to the body. While pulling gs in a jet, the resulting forces of the directional change will act along the longitudinal axis of the pilot's body and force the blood toward his feet. In a car, the forces will be exactly perpendicular to those in an aircraft and blood pooling will not be an issue.The biggest problem with the forces in a racecar will be strain on the neck. 2 g acceleration and 3 g deceleration over a minute or so will not be a problem for anybody in average physical condition.

[F.O.F.]

Originally Posted by JamesH

The Starfighter crashed a lot as a plane - I wonder if it will be any better as a car?

Something tells me no.But we will get to see the fastest and most amazingly spectacular car crash ever!

[JimW]

The Bloodhound project is holding two sessions in Swindon on Saturday 16th October (next Saturday).

Here are some details of the event which is free but requires pre-registration. (The dinner is optional and extra.)

The Institution of Engineering and Technology invites members, guests and members of the public to:

The BLOODHOUND project aims to both capture the World Land Speed Record and inspire young people to pursue careers in Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics (STEM) by their direct involvement in designing and building a car capable of reaching 1000 mph.
The Bloodhound car is coming to Swindon and will be at Intel Ltd’s premises. The Bloodhound team’s presentations and the opportunity to ride the “Bloodhound Driving Experience” represent an unique opportunity to gain a technical insight into Bloodhound’s design and operation. Two identical sessions, morning and afternoon, are being run for IET members, guests and the general public.

Bloodhound Program of Events and Registration Details
Saturday 16 October 2010

Event Options and Registration
The event is being hosted by Intel Ltd. and comprises technical presentations from the Bloodhound team and an exhibition featuring the Bloodhound car. There are three options for attendance: either by attending one of the two identical morning or afternoon technical presentation sessions (details below) and viewing the exhibition or alternatively by just viewing the exhibition. As the numbers who can attend are limited, attendees will need to register in advance for their preferred option. Attendance will be limited to those who have pre-registered. The event will be concluded by an optional dinner hosted in Intel’s restaurant with Richard Noble as the guest speaker. Entry to the dinner will be by prepaid ticket. Details of how to register and pay for the dinner are given below.

Technical Presentations
An introductory presentation, given by Intel and the Bloodhound team, will be followed by three 40 minute presentations on technical aspects of Bloodhound’s design given by members of the Bloodhound design team. The exhibition gives an opportunity to ride in the “Bloodhound Driving Experience”, view the Bloodhound car, and view the other exhibits including the Computer Aided Design facilities being provided by Intel.


Technical Presentation Synopses (Chapple Theatre)

1. Introduction by Intel and Bloodhound
Mark Brailey (Intel) and Mark Chapman (Bloodhound)

2. Bloodhound Real Time Control Systems
Dr. John Peter Davis, Senior Control Systems Engineer, Dragonfly Technology Ltd
Real time control systems being developed for Bloodhound include the operation and control of an EJ200 jet engine, the control and operation of an 18" Hybrid Rocket and of other car systems. For example the aerodynamic surfaces that ensure the vehicle remains in contact with the ground, operation of braking systems including air brakes, parachutes and normal hydraulic servo assisted brakes on the road wheels. The system will have multi processors with distributed tasking and will include the control of multiple states of operation and the sequencing, at the driver’s request, of the various powerplants and braking systems.

3. The Design Evolution of Bloodhound
Mark Chapman, Bloodhound Chief Engineer
This presentation will describe how the design of BLOODHOUND SSC has evolved since early 2008 up to today’s configuration and how the integration of the three separate powerplants has influenced this evolution.

4. The Bloodhound Project’s use of Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD)
Iain Niven, Bloodhound Design Engineer CFD
Computational Fluid Dynamics has been vital to the design of BLOODHOUND because wind tunnels are unsuitable for simulating the flow around a car travelling at over 1000 mph. The field of CFD encompasses many different computational techniques for simulating fluid flows. This presentation will briefly introduce CFD and then describe its use in the project. Intel’s role as IT partner to the BLOODHOUND project has had a major impact on the CFD by massively increasing the computing power available thereby accelerating the CFD studies.

Exhibition Marquee:

• The “Bloodhound Driving Experience”
• Bloodhound SSC Car
• Software demonstrations of Computation Fluid Dynamics design
• Intel CAD and Bloodhound displays
• IET and other information

Event Session Timings and Registration Links
Morning Technical Presentation 10 to 13:20 hrs (Exhibition 13.20 to 17.10 hrs), register online
Afternoon Technical Presentation 14:10 to 17:10 hrs (Exhibition 10.00 to 14.10 hrs), register online
Exhibition Only: 10 to 17:10 hrs, register online
Dinner: 18:00 to 21:00 hrs, register online
Intel Security Notice - Entry is by pre-registration only. Please bring a copy of your registration acknowledgement e-mail as authorisation.

Dinner Payment
For payment by credit card: Telephone Sam Best at IET Stevenage on 01438 767402 quoting “Bloodhound Dinner” and the payment of £25.00. For payment by cheque: Send a cheque made payable to “The IET” for £25.00 to: Robert McLaughlan CEng MIET, Swindon LN Treasurer, 7 Kingsley Gardens, Devizes, SN10 3DH

Register at http://www.iethampshirenorth.org.uk/...pply/2kRKZV3c/ for the morning session

http://www.iethampshirenorth.org.uk/...pply/Bv63djmb/ for the afternoon session

http://www.iethampshirenorth.org.uk/...pply/2kRKFD3c/ for the exhibition only

http://www.iethampshirenorth.org.uk/...pply/2kWaZV3c/ for the dinner

Regards

Jim

[betablocker]

In a car, the forces will be exactly perpendicular to those in an aircraft and blood pooling will not be an issue.The biggest problem with the forces in a racecar will be strain on the neck. 2 g acceleration and 3 g deceleration over a minute or so will not be a problem for anybody in average physical condition.[/QUOTE]


its quite a few years ago but when champ car went to a major oval like talledega, or charlotte, the cars did 230mph on a large oval, they were constantly pulling 3-4 g every lap all lap, the drivers were blacking out and crashing, and had to cancel the meeting and never went back.
i know they were on an oval but to anyone who was working there at the time will tell you, it was very scary.