[Official] Austrian Grand Prix 2016: Grand Prix Weekend Thread

[bobec]

Originally Posted by 2GRX7

LOL, the "racing line" is not my theory-more like physics! That's why I asked if you are a racer, raced in the past, or studied up on racing. This sentence that you wrote in the 2nd paragraph, in particular, clearly shows that you don't understand: Rosberg gave him at least a full car's length, as it's in the rules (no racing lines there as far as I know)

You're saying he was given more than enough track? More than enough track for what? Go straight and turn right within track limits? If Hamilton is at the limit of the track and he wants to stay on the track, he would have needed to turn before the painted track lines to still be on the track, correct? Rosberg is on the inside of him severely limiting his ability to turn right within the TRACK LIMITS. In your second paragraph, you seem to concede that Hamilton would need to go off track to continue the battle, so that's one part of this argument out of the way.

Yes, Hamilton is not physically on the track limits white line making his turn (as a open wheel racer, you cannot SEE the white line due to low seating position, body panels, wheels, one can only guestimate.

Yeah um, RoGro was CLEARLY on the racing line compared to Alonso in Hungry, CLEARLY!

I'm not going to do research FOR YOU on what is understood by 90% of the viewing public, of which, are a mix of racers, fans, team bosses, etc, it's for YOU to do this research; it's up to YOU to gain an understanding of the "racing line"; it's up to YOU to realize that "epiphany" in your life. Go ask some racers at your local race track - people with no ties to this thread - to obtain an impartial understanding.

Having all the information while watching a race will make it way more enjoyable for you! No joking, or being mean here. :-)

You sound like some self-proclaimed great authority. Did you race in Formula 1? I don't think so. Therefore, your word is not the ultimate authority. And I am not going to engage in personal attacks with you. No, I'm not a racer and I haven't raced in Formula 1 either. But I understand a lot of the rules.

Yes, I did mess up that sentences. It was supposed to read "a full car's width". And please don't give me that white line argument, because Rosberg is NOWHERE NEAR Hamilton at turn entry. And you only need a pair of eyes to see that, not an FIA superlicense. And this was never about the track limits.

The racing line is physics, but you are not the ultimate authority in physics either. There isn't always one and only one racing line. There could be different techniques by the different drivers, and even different lines for turn entry or exit. Not claiming Rosberg took some other ideal line, he tried taking an aggressively defensive line. But it's nowhere near as black and white as you say it is. And what you are giving me is a theory - that a driver must always follow "the" racing line. And I asked you to back it up with the FIA regulations. It's your theory, so you should be the one researching the regulations. In fact, the stewards' decision does not talk about any racing lines.

To top it off, your Schumacher comments, and throwing in Alonso and Button into the mix doesn't make you sound credible, not one bit.

The stewards simply put the two Mercedes drivers on the same level. Today's Formula 1 is all about politics. And by the way, Vettel thinks it was a racing incident, which is also my opinion.

I tried having a conversation with you, and I asked you for sources for your claims. You just kept implying what a great authority you are, and that I should work to get to your level. This is not a good discussion and want nothing to so with it. But just in case you change your approach, you might be interested in reading this:


https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014...les-of-racing/

[2GRX7]

Originally Posted by 2GRX7

Yes that is exactly what I mean. You used the clip of Grosjean and Alonso at 8:57. RoGro is on the racing line-that is the fastest way around a corner/down a straight. Alonso ceded that corner by going off because even though Alonso was just SLIGHTLY ahead, RoGro was on the racing line, therefore, giving him the right to dictate where he goes.

Nico, on the other hand, controlled the racing line until Hamilton passed him by a 1/4 car length on the outside of the turn. Now Nico DID NOT turn in on Hamilton at all, but what he failed to do was follow the racing line to the "apex" thru the "track out" point on the track. But there's a reason why Nico did what he did and that was to protect himself from getting caught out on Ham performing an "over/under move on the next straight.

That move allows the driver performing it to generate more straight-line speed than the person that botched up the normal racing line. Hamilton was privy to Nico's brake problems and was going to capitalize on them.

Nico "read" this classic maneuver and was looking to force him off track so that Hammy's velocity would slow and he'd have to resort to the paved run-off area to get back on track, loosing precious time/distance to Nico on the final straight of the final lap. It would have been nearly impossible for Hamilton to pass at any other point on the track, save the final turn and if Hammy tried, it would have most likely resulted in a crash with Hamilton at fault.

So, that's why I place blame with Nico. This whole racing line understanding was really capitalized by Schumacher. Alonso watched and learned; did it/does it. Button did it alot when he was up front and Buemi did it BIG TIME in Valencia. This is a rule when you're racing up front and the stewards (former racers) follow it.

Originally Posted by bobec

You sound like some self-proclaimed great authority. Did you race in Formula 1? I don't think so. Therefore, your word is not the ultimate authority. And I am not going to engage in personal attacks with you. No, I'm not a racer and I haven't raced in Formula 1 either. But I understand a lot of the rules.

Yes, I did mess up that sentences. It was supposed to read "a full car's width". And please don't give me that white line argument, because Rosberg is NOWHERE NEAR Hamilton at turn entry. And you only need a pair of eyes to see that, not an FIA superlicense. And this was never about the track limits.

The racing line is physics, but you are not the ultimate authority in physics either. There isn't always one and only one racing line. There could be different techniques by the different drivers, and even different lines for turn entry or exit. Not claiming Rosberg took some other ideal line, he tried taking an aggressively defensive line. But it's nowhere near as black and white as you say it is. And what you are giving me is a theory - that a driver must always follow "the" racing line. And I asked you to back it up with the FIA regulations. It's your theory, so you should be the one researching the regulations. In fact, the stewards' decision does not talk about any racing lines.

To top it off, your Schumacher comments, and throwing in Alonso and Button into the mix doesn't make you sound credible, not one bit.

The stewards simply put the two Mercedes drivers on the same level. Today's Formula 1 is all about politics. And by the way, Vettel thinks it was a racing incident, which is also my opinion.

I tried having a conversation with you, and I asked you for sources for your claims. You just kept implying what a great authority you are, and that I should work to get to your level. This is not a good discussion and want nothing to so with it. But just in case you change your approach, you might be interested in reading this:


https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014...les-of-racing/

LOL! dude, I knew you'd start taking offense, and like I said, I wasn't trying to offend you! You've chosen to take offense. Even your "F1 Metrics" article, incidentally, not written by a racer who took action to have it explained to him by recognized sources, is clearly showing a "racing line" (the red-dotted line in the diagram under section 2.Taking the one-move rule to its limits)! Underneath that diagram explains EXACTLY why Rosberg got penalized!

I'm not the authority-not in the least bit, but you're choosing not to acknowledge a common ground to start a discussion, so I'll just leave it be. Again, didn't mean to offend you. G/L

[bobec]

You're funny. Don't give yourself too much credit, I am not offended at all It's just that it's not a good discussion. All you seem to rely on is your self-proclaimed reputation as a great racer. Again, did you race in Formula 1???

It's both sad and funny that you got only to section 2 on the F1metrics article. A section that deals with something completely different (the one move rule). Again and again, you show your understanding of the different concepts in racing does not match your pretentiousness.

It's a shame, because if you had read the full article you would have learned of other instances of using an aggressive defensive line, different from the ideal racing line, intended to crowd out a driver who is attacking on the outside.

[2GRX7]

Wow! Waited FIVE days to say something back and it's the same thing-only now with a condescending tone?!!! I bet you're the type who'll defend Volkswagen's emissions scandal just because you're a devoted FANantic?

Hahaha! G/L dude!

[ScotsBrutesFan]

This the point to lock this and move on.