Dome S101.5

[templer]

I have tried to translate an article on the Dome website ( www.dome.co.jp/column/dt_53b.html) with an online-translator.
If I understand the very poor translation correctly Dome works on a new car called Dome S101.5. Sadly it will be only an evolution of the current hybrid.
Dome plan to built a new upper half of the monocoque and revise the gearbox and the suspension. So the car is legal to the new ACO regulations.
It woúld be powered by the new 5,5l Judd V10 S2 engine and will run on Michelin tyres.
Dome isn't very happy with the announcement of the ACO that all LMP1 cars must have a roof, because it's to expensive for small teams to build a totally new car now, which can be used only three years.

Regards

Markus

[WouterM]

If they feel they are a small manufacturer they should compete in LMP2 and if they want to compete with the big boys they should not complain. A new car every three years is not all that bad. Secondly the recent transition has proven that the ACO leaves plenty of time for teams to still use their old-reg cars.

[canam]

Originally Posted by WouterM

If they feel they are a small manufacturer they should compete in LMP2 and if they want to compete with the big boys they should not complain. A new car every three years is not all that bad. Secondly the recent transition has proven that the ACO leaves plenty of time for teams to still use their old-reg cars.

Given that Pescarolo has said the same thing, should he go into LMP2 as well?

For smaller manufacturers, the problem with a coupe is that the regs don't exist. It is fine looking at 2010, but many smaller manufacturers would like to design as much crossover from old to new car as possible in the new design. Without regs, this is nearly impossible.

[WouterM]

Originally Posted by canam

Given that Pescarolo has said the same thing, should he go into LMP2 as well?

Strictly speaking, yes. And Porsche and Acura should get the hell out of LMP2.

[FMSC]

It is good that the ACO gave them three years to make their new car...but if the privateer cars are forced out of LMP1 due to the cost, dosen't the LMS and ALMS run the risk of another GT1 debacle - with only 4 cars competiting in the ALMS catagory?
As we know if we had to rely on manufacturers in LMP1 over the past few years, all we would have had was Audi...is there any guarantee that this could be avoided with closed in cars?

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by templer

I have tried to translate an article on the Dome website ( www.dome.co.jp/column/dt_53b.html) with an online-translator.
If I understand the very poor translation correctly Dome works on a new car called Dome S101.5. Sadly it will be only an evolution of the current hybrid.
Dome plan to built a new upper half of the monocoque and revise the gearbox and the suspension. So the car is legal to the new ACO regulations.
It woúld be powered by the new 5,5l Judd V10 S2 engine and will run on Michelin tyres.

I reckon your online-translator did a pretty good job!

Claude Foubert of Endurance-Info has been in contact with Dome. Racing for Holland will continue to race the car, although for 2007 Dome will take complete control of the engineering side of things, far closer to being a full factory effort than in 2006. Let's hope they find the budget to do a full season in the LMS next year!

[ss_collins]

I suspect there is something bigger than this oin the pipeline.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

I suspect there is something bigger than this oin the pipeline.

That may be the case, Sam, I certainly hope so. Although it has to be said that they are showing precious little ambition for 2007, other than to get a car (as cheaply as possible) on the grid at Le Mans.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by FMSC

It is good that the ACO gave them three years to make their new car...but if the privateer cars are forced out of LMP1 due to the cost, dosen't the LMS and ALMS run the risk of another GT1 debacle - with only 4 cars competiting in the ALMS catagory?
As we know if we had to rely on manufacturers in LMP1 over the past few years, all we would have had was Audi...is there any guarantee that this could be avoided with closed in cars?

Nothings decided yet, while closed car costs is not a 'major' issue, it's the timeframe to build the new car.

We will more than likely see privateer closed cars, built to current regs, before 2010. If anything, a 2010 coupe will be cheaper to design and build than a current coupe, due to simplified aerodymanics, and will be available to privateers.

The ACO realise they need a formula to keep current privateers happy, but also attract major manufactuers.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Let's hope they find the budget to do a full season in the LMS next year!

If they don't, RFH will struggle to justify a Le Mans entry.

[WouterM]

Originally Posted by JAG

If they don't, RFH will struggle to justify a Le Mans entry.

Jan Lammers is justification enough I'd say. His loyalty to the sport in general and Le Mans in particular should be enough for a 'wild card'. Also he never disappoints; he was on his way to a podium finish when his 'ace' driver screwed up.

[chocmonster7]

Originally Posted by WouterM

Jan Lammers is justification enough I'd say. His loyalty to the sport in general and Le Mans in particular should be enough for a 'wild card'. Also he never disappoints; he was on his way to a podium finish when his 'ace' driver screwed up.

Perhaps you'd like to clarify that you were refering to Yoong & not Johansson?
Plus as the race wasn't even half over by then we cannot know what would have happened.

[WouterM]

Originally Posted by chocmonster7

Perhaps you'd like to clarify that you were refering to Yoong & not Johansson?
Plus as the race wasn't even half over by then we cannot know what would have happened.

Johansson is an ace driver, not an 'ace' driver.

[templer]

The Dome annoucement is disapointing because RfH said they want to work closer with Dome. But this car would have no chance against the other " small teams" like Pescarolo, Courage or Zytek and of course the posibility to beat Audi is nearly 0 %. I don't understand the decision because Dome has a developed closed car (even only at CAD) called S102. Why build they not this car.
But I think the new ACO rules are at the current point of view bull****, because nobody knows the exacty definition. Is ist possible to build a " hardtop" on the a car or not. The ACO wants to change more than only the roof but they don't tell what. I don't want to see cars looking like Daytona Prototypes.
And thats the problem for small teams. They have to build a totally new car for 2007 and build another for 2010. For teams like Pescarolo it#s nearly impossible.
Dome is a small constructor, compared to Audi or Peugeot. Don't forget on the new Courage LC 70 worked 15 persons, on the Lola a bit more than 20 and on the Audi R10 150 !!!
so even you rae a specialised constructor like Lola, it's nearly impossible to compensate the possibilites of works teams.

[JAG]

Yet Lola and Creation will both have closed cars well before they are required in 2010.

[WouterM]

Dome has been stretching the S101 for at least six seasons now. They could have started designing the new cars two years ago, but they decided to go for the cheap option for as long as possible. Now that no longer is an option that start complaining. Again if they play with the big boys, they should find a big boy to support them or go play at a lower level. The problem is that there are so few proper manufacturers in LMP1, that it is still in interesting options for teams/constructors that should actually have a go at LMP2.

[templer]

I understand your arguments WouterM and they are correct. But look at all small teams like Creation,Lola, Courage, Zytek and so on. They all use their cars as long as possible because they don't have the money and it is really difficult to find enough sponsors.
And if you look at the new RS Spyder i am not sure that a LMP2 is cheaper. The Porsche ist the most advanced and radical LMP2 car at the moment. You say the LMP2 is no works-class. Thats true, but why don't other manufactors like Honda or Porsche not switch to the LMP2? Because according to Porsche studies it is impossible to beat the diesel cars with a normal powered car. According to the current regulations the diesel cars have more power and more torque, they are better in all points accept the aero.
And if you want to leave all small teams you have exactly two LMP1 competitors Audi and Peugeot. In my opinion a little bit less.

[JAG]

Zytek, Creation and Dyson could all have won PLM with petrol cars.

If similar performance balancing is brought in for diesels in 2007, diesel and petrol should be equally competitive.

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by templer

The Dome annoucement is disapointing because RfH said they want to work closer with Dome. But this car would have no chance against the other " small teams" like Pescarolo, Courage or Zytek and of course the posibility to beat Audi is nearly 0 %. I don't understand the decision because Dome has a developed closed car (even only at CAD) called S102. Why build they not this car.
But I think the new ACO rules are at the current point of view bull****, because nobody knows the exacty definition. Is ist possible to build a " hardtop" on the a car or not. The ACO wants to change more than only the roof but they don't tell what. I don't want to see cars looking like Daytona Prototypes.
And thats the problem for small teams. They have to build a totally new car for 2007 and build another for 2010. For teams like Pescarolo it#s nearly impossible.
Dome is a small constructor, compared to Audi or Peugeot. Don't forget on the new Courage LC 70 worked 15 persons, on the Lola a bit more than 20 and on the Audi R10 150 !!!
so even you rae a specialised constructor like Lola, it's nearly impossible to compensate the possibilites of works teams.

i completely agree with you im all for the new 2010 regs but everyone having to have a closed car is too far, they should give teams a choice whether they want to go for a open or closed prototype i would say let the smaller firms use open cars and the big manufacturers who can afford to make closed cars have closed cars that way things could be better maybe the reason the ACO hasnt noticed why manufacturers wont go back to lemans is because they keep on chnaging the bloody rules lol

[WouterM]

Originally Posted by templer

I understand your arguments WouterM and they are correct. But look at all small teams like Creation,Lola, Courage, Zytek and so on. They all use their cars as long as possible because they don't have the money and it is really difficult to find enough sponsors.
And if you look at the new RS Spyder i am not sure that a LMP2 is cheaper. The Porsche ist the most advanced and radical LMP2 car at the moment. You say the LMP2 is no works-class. Thats true, but why don't other manufactors like Honda or Porsche not switch to the LMP2? Because according to Porsche studies it is impossible to beat the diesel cars with a normal powered car. According to the current regulations the diesel cars have more power and more torque, they are better in all points accept the aero.
And if you want to leave all small teams you have exactly two LMP1 competitors Audi and Peugeot. In my opinion a little bit less.

I don't hear other teams complaining though. Porsche should not be in LMP2. If they felt their best effort would not be good enough in LMP1, they could no doubt convince the ACO that the diesel restrictions are too lenient. It's pretty pathetic that a 18?-time Le Mans winner gives up this easily and decides to turn to a lesser class to screw things up even further.

[JAG]

Pescarolos point is the timeframe to build a new car in 3 years time, not the cost of building a coupe.

Afterall, Lola, Radical, Creation and Epsilons pre 2007/8 customer cars could very likely be coupes.

The ACO have not put forward any firm regs, its higlhy likely there will be a form of grandfathering.

As for the cost of privateers buying new chassis, how many unforced car changes have the small Rollcentre team had in the last 5 years!

[FIRE]

Dome has showed they are able to build a fast AND reliable car and I am sure the Dome S101.5 will be too. If I was a team owner (with LM history of last 5 years in mind) and had to buy a car for LM I would choose the Dome over a Lola, Zytek or Creation.

[templer]

In an interview with the german car-magazine "sport-auto" Henry Pescarolo said that he talked to the ACO to drop the new regulations because he haven't the money and he won't build a new car to the 2010 regulations.
Perhaps we will have some coupes like KWM, Lola or Epsilon before 2010 but its a risk because all these cars can be illegal.

And the Creation, the Zytek and the Lola could all have won the PLM but they didn't. All ALMS races saw a victory of the TDI powered Audi R10. And the Lola B06/10 has more tank capacity and less weight as the other LMP1 cars.

Of course I am the same opinion that Porsche should build a LMP1 car . Everyone is waiting for such a car, but they don't . So we have to wait.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by JAG

Pescarolos point is the timeframe to build a new car in 3 years time, not the cost of building a coupe.!

In a interview Pescarolo said also costs are a problem.

[WouterM]

Originally Posted by templer

Perhaps we will have some coupes like KWM, Lola or Epsilon before 2010 but its a risk because all these cars can be illegal.

That's highly unlikely. The recent rule changes have showcased a lot of leniency on the ACO's part by allowing plenty of time (three years, which is a full lifespan of a racing car) to build new cars. I am only counting the years that the rules were actually in force; I am not sure how many years earlier they were announced.