Audi LMP1 Discussion - Page 89

LeMans.pt · 17 Oct 2011, 21:30 (Ref:2972933)

Audi arrived to Estoril. No cars to be seen yet...

DeutschRenn · 17 Oct 2011, 21:33 (Ref:2972935)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

Audi arrived to Estoril. No cars to be seen yet...

lucky!

DeutschRenn · 17 Oct 2011, 21:59 (Ref:2972952)

Oh wait a minute......Wasnt the story when the R18 first came out that the R18 would utilize a waste energy recovery system from the exhaust? rather than the kers approach of peugeot. what ever happened to that?

gwyllion · 17 Oct 2011, 22:04 (Ref:2972956)

Yes that is the consensus. An electric generator will be connected to the turbo in some way to transform waste energy into electricity and this electricity will be used to drive the front or rear wheels.

Tim the Grey · 18 Oct 2011, 11:58 (Ref:2973233)

You also have the option of an exhaust powered 'direct drive' system...
See the Napier Nomad for an example.
There are also some interesting Exhaust Heat Recovery options coming out of Cummins truck engine research centres.

gwyllion · 19 Oct 2011, 12:34 (Ref:2973807)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

Audi arrived to Estoril. No cars to be seen yet...

Any news?

Acid09 · 19 Oct 2011, 12:36 (Ref:2973809)

Looks like Audi is hitting the panic button. Building a new car after just one season? Geez, this is shaping up to become like F1 now

MitchZ06 · 19 Oct 2011, 12:59 (Ref:2973826)

Maybe they didn't expect Peugeot to be serious about the 908 Hybrid4? Or Toyota really shook things up?

Any chance also Audi could be working on a turbo I4 with hybrid system for R18 '120Quattro' next year?

Acid09 · 19 Oct 2011, 13:02 (Ref:2973829)

The most remarkable thing is that Peugeot is still using a (albeit refined) aero concept that was introduced back in 2006!

Since then, Audi has built 2 1/2 all-new cars and the 908 is still competitive..amazing. That just shows how far ahead of it's time the original 908 aero-concept was.

MulsanneMike · 19 Oct 2011, 13:04 (Ref:2973831)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acid09

The most remarkable thing is that Peugeot is still using a (albeit refined) aero concept that was introduced back in 2006!

Since then, Audi has built 2 1/2 all-new cars and the 908 is still competitive..amazing. That just shows how far ahead of it's time the original 908 aero-concept was.

Yes, there are two completely different philosophies at work between Audi and Peugeot.

gwyllion · 19 Oct 2011, 14:37 (Ref:2973869)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acid09

The most remarkable thing is that Peugeot is still using a (albeit refined) aero concept that was introduced back in 2006!

Since then, Audi has built 2 1/2 all-new cars and the 908 is still competitive..amazing. That just shows how far ahead of it's time the original 908 aero-concept was.

Maybe it shows that you need a roof in order to be competitive in Le Mans

JAG · 19 Oct 2011, 16:47 (Ref:2973912)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acid09

Looks like Audi is hitting the panic button. Building a new car after just one season? Geez, this is shaping up to become like F1 now

The new Audi maybe no more radical a change than the Peugeot 908 HYbrid4, only Audi may see fit to name it the R**.

The Badger · 19 Oct 2011, 17:07 (Ref:2973925)

Didnt Audi build the R18 with hybrid inmind ?

Mal · 19 Oct 2011, 17:24 (Ref:2973931)

The 908 with the V8 diesel was pretty much a new car even though there is a visual resemblance and they gave it the same name

**joeb** · 19 Oct 2011, 17:24 (Ref:2973932)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

Didnt Audi build the R18 with hybrid inmind ?

On the launch of the R18 Dr Baretzky had this to say:

Quote:

"The Audi R18 has been designed for progressive electrification, which Audi Sport is planning to drive forward step by step. "But efficiency is always the crucial factor for us,” says Dr. Wolfgang Ullrich. "No matter which form of energy recovery we may choose the key aspect for Audi – in motorsport as well as on the production side of the house – is that it provides a true advantage.”

MihokS5 · 19 Oct 2011, 18:02 (Ref:2973945)

We aren't really hearing anything that hasn't been said before. We heard months ago that next years R18 would a noticeable progression from the current design.
And as Mike stated, the aero philosophies between the 2 teams are very different. We all know how the R15 project was missed from the start, but the R18 seems to have better aero than the 908 considering they put down damn close lap times with the R18 less powered

Acid09 · 19 Oct 2011, 18:28 (Ref:2973954)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal

The 908 with the V8 diesel was pretty much a new car even though there is a visual resemblance and they gave it the same name

Underneath, yes. But the aeroconcept still is pretty much the same, some of the features of the new 908 (the swan-neck mounts for example) were initially planned as an update for the old 908 HDi FAP.

chernaudi · 19 Oct 2011, 22:04 (Ref:2974034)

And it's not like Peugeot won't change most of the body panels on their car if the proposed ACO aero rules for 2012 pass, or that they can't afford it--ironically, Peugeot's own investigation into their own accidents in private testing earlier this year seems to be what's driving this after they handed in their findings and a list of recommended changes to the ACO.

Of course, this does make the ACO's rules over louvers and their insistence that they stay in place rather useless, don't you think? The reason they exist is to keep teams from running big holes in the front wheelwells to generate downforce.

AndrewF31 · 19 Oct 2011, 22:05 (Ref:2974035)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Any news?

The lone Audi truck is still parked in the middle of the paddock so it is still up in the air when they'll start.

cdsvg · 20 Oct 2011, 05:30 (Ref:2974127)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Yes, there are two completely different philosophies at work between Audi and Peugeot.

Just curious, would you say that peugeot have worked with a fairly conservative but solid aero concept and carried that through with minimal changes (with most of the performance differentiation coming from the engine), or is it that the aero concept of the 908 from the beginning was (and still is) exceptionally good, hence the relative lack of changes?

vyselegend · 20 Oct 2011, 21:07 (Ref:2974483)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acid09

Looks like Audi is hitting the panic button. Building a new car after just one season? Geez, this is shaping up to become like F1 now

They have no reason to panic. Certainly not about of the car at least. The R18 was the most competitive Audi since they're fighting Peugeot.

Their deficit in race wins shows something needs to be adressed, but it's not the car.

The Badger · 20 Oct 2011, 21:23 (Ref:2974488)

If its their most competitive car in years , and there is no issue with it , what is the issue then ?

You cant say the drivers . there is a good mix of young , quick and vast experiance there .

DeutschRenn · 20 Oct 2011, 22:08 (Ref:2974513)

......Sounds like this is being taken out of context. When they said tey where building a new car.....What they meant was that they would be adding the yet to be announced hybrid system. Ullrich said the parentage of the R18 would be obvious. We can probably jsut expect a hybrid system, and the usual yearly aero updates from what they have learned in there first year with the R18.

Tim the Grey · 21 Oct 2011, 09:00 (Ref:2974632)

I would suspect there's a couple of new R18s being built anyway, after the travails of 2011!

vyselegend · 21 Oct 2011, 13:33 (Ref:2974738)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

If its their most competitive car in years , and there is no issue with it , what is the issue then ?

You cant say the drivers . there is a good mix of young , quick and vast experiance there .

When the average difference around a lap is within 2 tenth of a second between rivals, then I think we can argue the main performance differenciator over an endurance race is not the car's pace.

I agree about what you said on the driver line up, still it was the drivers who f***ed up their races again and again. Allan being the main disapointment, with a crappy spin at Spa, heavy crash at LM, several contacts in Silverstone and Petit etc... Then you had Kristensen's off road in Imola, Fassler's spins at Silverstone, and obviously Dumas dramatic move at Petit... Not even counting the other clashes when they were arguably just unlucky.

Those are the main reason why Audi didn't score a win in the 5 ILMC rounds and came close to lose Le Mans as well. Before each of those driver's mishaps, they were nearly always in contention for the win, the only exception being Imola. But then again, who's responsible of setting up the car correctly: The driver and his engineers.

I think being experienced drivers with so much miles under their belt in open cars didn't help TK, Allan and Dindo. They seem to struggle to apprehend correctly the dimentions of their car in traffic.

What they need the most IMO is more and more racing miles. It took several years to the Peugeot drivers to get their crashing statistics going down. This year they "only" crashed twice (Gene at Sebring and Montagny at Petit) in 6 races , which is a lot less than other years.

Point is: The R18 is a good car, quick and reliable.

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