Audi LMP1 Discussion

[TF110]

Originally Posted by henk4

was the ACO ever involved in any way with the design of the Daytona prototypes? If not, then what you are saying is utter nonsense, but ACO bashing seems to be popular these days.

How is my post ACO bashing, or nonsense? If Audi doesn't fix visibility issues its possible the ACO would step in if there's more accidents. That could lead to ungainly proportions on the LMP's to raise the roof to see better, or widen the cockpit. But you're reading in too far, so take a step back please.

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

LMDP's?

Now that would be something beautiful to behold, a LMDP with a fin.

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

Well just look at this:

http://gustavobamba.deviantart.com/a...tion-273918552

This picture is just for illustrate the Windscreen modification and that a little change don´t transform the car in a DP :-)

I realize your pic is just for the look of the car, but it would surely change the aero aspect (and I am no aero expert).
Mike may have an opinion on this?

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

Well just look at this:

http://gustavobamba.deviantart.com/a...tion-273918552

This picture is just for illustrate the Windscreen modification and that a little change don´t transform the car in a DP :-)

It makes the greenhouse look like Darth Vader's helmet

[JAG]

Evo tests R18.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=0_tt6G0E09Q

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by TF110

How is my post ACO bashing, or nonsense? If Audi doesn't fix visibility issues its possible the ACO would step in if there's more accidents.

There is nothing wrong with the dimensions of the cockpit of closed LMP1s! The rules are the same since 2004 and there were never until the aggressive Audi drivers starting hitting slower GT car

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

Well just look at this:

http://gustavobamba.deviantart.com/a...tion-273918552

This picture is just for illustrate the Windscreen modification and that a little change don´t transform the car in a DP :-)

I repeat, hight is NOT the problem. Otherwise they could just peel off the a bit of windscreen sticker (it covers like the top half of the windscreen). Have a look at this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovq8K1Bqa1Q
If anything is really wrong with the visibility, the massive pillars must be the problem.
Let's face it. Many LMPs don't even resemble sportscars. They are singleseaters, with tiny fighter-jet-like cockpits and wheels in separate 'pods' barely attached to the chassis and from 2012 they become openwheel singleseaters!

Here's what I meant talking about making the width of the cockpit more acceptable.


i.e.


PS: while we're at it. Here's a version 1900mm-wide with current cockpit and slightly narrower front tires.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Here's what I meant talking about making the width of the cockpit more acceptable.

The width of the cockpit is not an issue either. The R18 has the widest cockpit of all current LMP1s. The 908 is much narrower.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

I repeat, hight is NOT the problem. Otherwise they could just peel off the a bit of windscreen sticker (it covers like the top half of the windscreen). Have a look at this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovq8K1Bqa1Q
If anything is really wrong with the visibility, the massive pillars must be the problem.
Let's face it. Many LMPs don't even resemble sportscars. They are singleseaters, with tiny fighter-jet-like cockpits and wheels in separate 'pods' barely attached to the chassis and from 2012 they become openwheel singleseaters!

Here's what I meant talking about making the width of the cockpit more acceptable.


i.e.

Peeling of a part of the windscreen sticker wouldn't help. The problem with the R18 is the seating position compared to the wheel arches, so yes hight is a problem.
I think it's pretty clear we won't see "open wheelers" in 2012, so why post this?
Looking at Le Mans history, the Bentley and Toyota TS020 is two of the biggest green houses in the history, and should in that state of mind have the Porsche 917, Grp. C/Peugeot 905 as a design goal, which cockpits isn't that different than the 908/R18 except relative "lower"(ei. the old cars has a "lower" cockpit).
In general i have nothing against the current design of cars, except all the mandatory parts, like the Fin and smaller rear wing.

A funny thing. When i started the LMP EVO rules thread, the general opinion was against those rules. Now it's starting to sound that it's what people kinda wants!?.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by CTD

Peeling of a part of the windscreen sticker wouldn't help. The problem with the R18 is the seating position compared to the wheel arches, so yes hight is a problem.

I can't believe Audi (or anyone else) would suddenly sacrifice performance for better visibility (i.e. higher CG). And I doubt fenders can be narrower with those massive front tires.

Originally Posted by CTD

I think it's pretty clear we won't see "open wheelers" in 2012, so why post this?

Is it?

[Mal]

The problem is the height of the wheelarches compared to the eyeline of the driver.

[gwyllion]

Most tracks are clock wise, so visibility to the right side is important to see the apex. However, with the big front tyres and right hand drive, visibility to the right side is terrible. Maybe Audi just has to go back left hand drive

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

I can't believe Audi (or anyone else) would suddenly sacrifice performance for better visibility (i.e. higher CG). And I doubt fenders can be narrower with those massive front tires.
Is it?

If the risk is crashing the cars and not finishing, then yes they certainly will sacrifice performance - especially Audi!

If that is what you call open wheelers, then you need to get your definitions checked!

[gwyllion]

@Pandamasque: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_wheel_car defines that "Open-wheel car, formula car, or often single-seater car in British English, describes cars with the wheels outside the car's main body and, in most cases, one seat."

The mandatory holes in the fenders do not justify the term open wheel.
Moreover, current LMP1s are (potential) two seaters. See http://www.motorsport.com/lemans/pho...tal-peugeot-10

[henk4]

Originally Posted by TF110

How is my post ACO bashing, or nonsense? If Audi doesn't fix visibility issues its possible the ACO would step in if there's more accidents. That could lead to ungainly proportions on the LMP's to raise the roof to see better, or widen the cockpit. But you're reading in too far, so take a step back please.

read your post again, the inevitable outcome of ACO involvement according to you is ugly cars. However suppose the ACO only regulated the seating hight within the current canopy dimensions? Peugeots and Lolas have no problems, but Audi drivers are sitting on the floor. I am not advocating ACO involvement, I think constructors who field cars which are a nuisance to drive because of poor visibility should act themselves, and if the cars of those constructors cause accidents on a very regular basis, they should be banned.....

[The Badger]

Agreed , regardless of who it is .

[vyselegend]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

@Pandamasque: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_wheel_car defines that "Open-wheel car, formula car, or often single-seater car in British English, describes cars with the wheels outside the car's main body and, in most cases, one seat."

The mandatory holes in the fenders do not justify the term open wheel.
Moreover, current LMP1s are (potential) two seaters. See http://www.motorsport.com/lemans/pho...tal-peugeot-10

Panda sure knows what an open-wheeler is (well, I hope), he's just using the word to describe what the rulers have done to the current LMPs with that BHH blasphemy! It's like someone telling "such car is a dog", and you come with a dictonary proving a car is not an animal lol! Don't take everything at the 1st degree!

And that 2 seaters 908 was a rather spectacular accomplishment, considering the actual size of the cockpit. Doesn't look very comfortable though.

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Here's what I meant talking about making the width of the cockpit more acceptable.

I'm not sure I dislike the current narrow greenhouse cars. A few years back I was categoric, but now, looking at both the R18 and TS020, I found the Toyota is the wrong sized one. Still a looker, but the large windshield looks less of an ultimate race compromise, it has aged IMO. Nowadays LMPs look like jet fighters and I like it (although like everyone I prefer they don't take off). The nose pillars are the only thing looking ugly on a 908. On that point, I find the R18 photoshoped by gustavobamba is looking great because it has a narrower nose, which corrects a bit the daffy-duck effect. Good job!

[henk4]

Originally Posted by vyselegend

I'm not sure I dislike the current narrow greenhouse cars. A few years back I was categoric, but now, looking at both the R18 and TS020, I found the Toyota is the wrong sized one. Still a looker, but the large windshield looks less of an ultimate race compromise, it has aged IMO. Nowadays LMPs look like jet fighters and I like it (although like everyone I prefer they don't take off). The nose pillars are the only thing looking ugly on a 908. On that point, I find the R18 photoshoped by gustavobamba is looking great because it has a narrower nose, which corrects a bit the daffy-duck effect. Good job!

It will be a very long time from now before anything can esthetically match a Lola T70 or a Chevron B16......

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Maybe Audi just has to go back left hand drive

Is it known why they switched to RHD in the first place?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Is it known why they switched to RHD in the first place?

A more universal driving position, for their huge cancelled ALMS project.

[Number7]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Is it known why they switched to RHD in the first place?

Makes change of drivers easier and faster at LeMans,

[Lppiesaudi]

Some news on the 2012 Audi testing. They are testing at Sebring this weekend with two cars for comparison testing.

Posted on Audi Sport’s Official Facbook page: “Audi Sport is intensively preparing for the 2012 sports prototype season. A test team has started the next trial phase of the LMP1 sports car for the 2012 season in the United States this week."

Press Release: https://www.audi-mediaservices.com/p...tlichkeit.html

The photo on Facebook from Paul Richard shows new much sharper edges on the nose section.

[P38 in workshop]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Is it known why they switched to RHD in the first place?

With a clockwise circuit you might as well have the driver's weight where it will do the most good.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by Lppiesaudi

Some news on the 2012 Audi testing. They are testing at Sebring this weekend with two cars for comparison testing.

Posted on Audi Sport’s Official Facbook page: “Audi Sport is intensively preparing for the 2012 sports prototype season. A test team has started the next trial phase of the LMP1 sports car for the 2012 season in the United States this week."

Press Release: https://www.audi-mediaservices.com/p...tlichkeit.html

The photo on Facebook from Paul Richard shows new much sharper edges on the nose section.

Wich Facebook, Audi or Paul Ricard???

[Victor_RO]

Interestingly the car is not being referred to as an "R18" anywhere in that press release, only as a "2012 LMP1".

[Bentley03]

DAILY SPORTSCAR have posted their observations and speculations here.