24h Nürburgring/VLN

[airbusA346]

http://www.motorsport-xl.de/news/201...ife-17855.html

Article in German. Mentions something about 200 km/h (and 250 km/h for Döttinger Höhe).

[Rodger Davies]

Power reduction is one thing, but can't believe how low those speed limits sound - what were they doing down Dottinger Hohe before? Presumably well over 300kph.

Urgh, I was in the process of booking in the day of the accident, but put it on hold. Not sure about going now.

[MitchZ06]

Not really interested in watching the event either if this knee jerk reaction crap keeps up.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

Power reduction is one thing, but can't believe how low those speed limits sound - what were they doing down Dottinger Hohe before? Presumably well over 300kph.

Urgh, I was in the process of booking in the day of the accident, but put it on hold. Not sure about going now.

FWIW, as I understand it, the speed limit won't be the whole DöHö, just a short-ish slowdown, and then accelerating again to a (presumably) lower terminal velocity.

I wouldn't have been able to go either way with work getting in the way, but I don't feel particularly bad about it right now.

[Rodger Davies]

I would presume that section will be near the crest under the bridge, as it seems they're implementing limits everywhere there's a slight crest.

[cmk]

This is just dumb. I was reading the changes and thinking this sounded pretty sensible (especially not having spectators in very high risk areas). Then I got to the speed limit part...

I can't say I have much of an interest in following the race with that limitation in place. I also do not understand how it is supposed to play out with faster cars needing to clear slower cars. If the fastest classes can't use their maximum speed on the straight, isn't this going to result in everyone getting bottled up and needing to pass in the twisties? That sounds absolutely brilliant for safety, since no incidents ever result from that on the Nordschleife.

I guess if what people here are saying about it not being a whole-straight limit, the problem won't be as exacerbated, but it still sounds unwise as well as contrived and silly.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

Power reduction is one thing, but can't believe how low those speed limits sound - what were they doing down Dottinger Hohe before? Presumably well over 300kph.

Urgh, I was in the process of booking in the day of the accident, but put it on hold. Not sure about going now.

That sounds a bit high to me - I'd be surprised if the recorded top speed down the Hohe was significantly higher than 285kph.

I can understand the measures to an extent - substantial changes (to the cars) that get to the root of the problem would likely take more time than we have until the N24. But these changes, sweeping as they are, can only be temporary because racing to strict speed limits will create as many problems as it solves.

[Babapapa]

It's easy to babble about "knee-jerk-action", if you got no responsibilty!

[Deleted]

Lol what.

I think they got around to these half-assed "solutions" because the big money GT3 and rest of the manufacturers demanded the race to go on for them and things to get back to business ASAP, so instead of actually doing further research ADAC just slapped this crap together. Small reduction in power and circuit access is all fine, as would have been upgraded fences which they don't talk about, but this is just...

But, but, even though this sounds just as knee jerky as it gets, I don't necessarily see it being any worse than FIA-ACO continuously pouring La Sarthe full of asphalt from every angle, even next to straight lines, in the names of "safety"

[Speed-King]

I think they got around to these half-assed "solutions" because the big money GT3 and rest of the manufacturers demanded the race to go on for them and things to get back to business ASAP, so instead of actually doing further research ADAC just slapped this crap together. Small reduction in power and circuit access is all fine, as would have been upgraded fences which they don't talk about, but this is just...

The original document says that the spectator zones will be partially off limit until necessary construction measures are completed, so I guess that could include upgraded fences.

Also, I'd think of this as another time buying measure. They don't have the time to properly modify the cars or the track before the 24, so this was probably the best solution they could come up with, with other options being no GTs at all, or a 24 on the GP loop or who knows whatelse they could have come up with. Spec tires could have been an option as well, though I wonder if a supplier could have been found at relatively short notice.

All these measures are however temporary, with further research still being done, but under no pressure to be concluded in time to be implemented before the 24.

[Ferrari333SP]

These changes are only temporary people; not something they'll keep in place. Once they get new regulations set in stone regarding how close people can be to the track, and they flatten Flugplatz out a big, then things I'm sure will go back to normal. Just an interim solution. www.autosport.com

[Deleted]

Yeah I agree it's only 'temporary', of course it is since the manufacturers made them hurry it up, but couldn't ADAC just have downgraded the performance by more than 5%, like 10%, and not bother with the speed limits. It's not like the paces of these GTs are really mirroring the actual road cars versions anyway so...

Anyway, at least they didn't pick the REALLY horrific controlling option, a la Creventic target lap time + joker lap nonsense.

[Coach Ep]

It's the DMSB dealing with the matter - not the ADAC. (compare RAC - MSA in the UK).

It was this or no SP7, SP8, SP8T, SP9, SP-Pro, SP-X and Cup-2, the GT classes of H4, the E1-XP1, E1-XP2 and E1-XP Hybrid - basically all the faster cars.

Not a fan of speed limits and permanent yellow zones either but something had to give, the time window for the DMSB was very narrow and they haven't yet had the chance to look at the car - let alone the data! - as it is still confiscated by the authorities with the prosecutor still investigating the fatality and hasn't released the wrecked car yet.

Let's hope the track remains unchanged at the critical spot(s).

[cmk]

That's a good point. They are somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place since they can't access the original data. I feel like my initial reaction may have been a little extreme. I still worry about the wisdom of, and wonder about the necessity of, a speed limit on the DoHo. Is there any serious reason to think a car will fly there? I know speeds have been rising on the track in the GT3 era with power/downforce/suspension development but I would have thought the straight-line speeds, more relevant to the DoHo, were not that far removed from the top cars of a decade ago?

[Speed-King]

The DöHö speed limit might be a result of Niclas Kentenich's crash in the Hohenrain-Chicane earlier that day... he nearly got impaled by a piece of armco after a high speed shunt in a Porsche Cup car.

http://www.motorsport-magazin.com/vl...m-krankenhaus/

[Jameson]

Originally Posted by Chiana

It's not like the paces of these GTs are really mirroring the actual road cars versions anyway so...

Why would a race car need to have similar pace to its road version?

[Miguel]

I guess scaling down the power output and cutting holes into the floor, in addition to closing off some public areas, wasn't a good idea? They needed this slap-stick solution? Glad I'm not at the Ring this weekend.

[cmk]

To be fair, cutting holes in the floor (if this would even readily prevent catching air) could easily incur a non-trivial cost to the many high profile teams who campaign their GT3 cars both in the VLN and N24 and in other series. Having all sorts of other custom parts for the Nordschleife is hard enough without making them all have bespoke floors too.

[Nick6]

I knew GT3s and the rest would come back. Too much publicity and manufacturer involvement to just throw away.

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by cmk

That's a good point. They are somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place since they can't access the original data. I feel like my initial reaction may have been a little extreme. I still worry about the wisdom of, and wonder about the necessity of, a speed limit on the DoHo. Is there any serious reason to think a car will fly there? I know speeds have been rising on the track in the GT3 era with power/downforce/suspension development but I would have thought the straight-line speeds, more relevant to the DoHo, were not that far removed from the top cars of a decade ago?

It's the combination of top speed and rather extreme and unregulated aerodynamics which may be relatively uncharted territory.

What really needs to happen is a massive cutback on GT3 cars to more reasonable downforce levels and designs but that's something the FIA and SRO have to do and will be a hell of a time with cars like the new R8 just coming out.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by cmk

To be fair, cutting holes in the floor (if this would even readily prevent catching air) could easily incur a non-trivial cost to the many high profile teams who campaign their GT3 cars both in the VLN and N24 and in other series. Having all sorts of other custom parts for the Nordschleife is hard enough without making them all have bespoke floors too.

Good point. What kind if prizes are we talking about for a floor?

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

It's the combination of top speed and rather extreme and unregulated aerodynamics which may be relatively uncharted territory.

What really needs to happen is a massive cutback on GT3 cars to more reasonable downforce levels and designs but that's something the FIA and SRO have to do and will be a hell of a time with cars like the new R8 just coming out.

Haha, just had a though: how badly would the crowd on here lose it if GTD-specs became the global standard?

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by cmk

To be fair, cutting holes in the floor (if this would even readily prevent catching air) could easily incur a non-trivial cost to the many high profile teams who campaign their GT3 cars both in the VLN and N24 and in other series. Having all sorts of other custom parts for the Nordschleife is hard enough without making them all have bespoke floors too.

Yes, a standard GT3 won't last long on the Ring, suspension, dampers, etc, all need reinforcement if you wanna keep running and play a role upfront. With the GT3s becoming more expensive I doubt an extra floor (or two in case of damage) will be a deal breaker especially for pseudo factory teams like WRT, Phoenix, Marc VDS, Schubert, Black Falcon, Rowe, Manthey, etc.

Maybe Mike Hedlund can give us a little inside on the costs (on a Ferrari 458 at least)? Thx.

[Holt]

A speed limit on a racetrack. Now that is an oxymoron. Why couldnt they just reduce the power by 10% instead of 5% and be done with it?

[Down F0rce]

I'm just happy the big cars are back, and my summer holiday is back on track. Speed limits or not, I'm sure the N24 was be as epic as ever.