[Tech Issue] Pirelli's 'REVOLUTION' tyres for 2013.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Hopefully they will... hey, that's Pirelli we're talking about, they can do anything ! Right Marbot ??

You'll either love them or hate them.


I, for one, was hoping that Pirelli would make tyres that lasted for the whole season. The penalty for changing such a set of tyres would be having to listen to an hour long essay, by Knowlesy, on the advantages of long life F1 tyres. I suspect that many would be more than just 'running on their rims' by the end of the season.

[Knowlesy]

Oh dear, looks like the 'Pirelli Employee of the Year' is rattled again. I don't remember advocating tyres that last an entire season, but there you go.

I expect the new tyres to be about as sensible and balanced as your suggestion. We'll just have to wait and see I suppose, but the noises about making tyres designed to attract sponsors is not promising. A tyre company should be in the sport to stretch and better itself IMO.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

A tyre company should be in the sport to stretch and better itself IMO.

A tyre company is in a sport to make money, sell tyres and to enhance it's public and racing image.

The signed up to a contract to provide tyres that will conform to A, B, C, D and have and inter and wet as well. Check box ticked

Able to put that all important "Exclusive F1 (C) Supplier" on their advertising

Have the word Pirelli mentioned atleast 50 times in a 2 hour window every couple of weeks in households all over the world Check box ticked twice

To be able to say to other Formula and Racing type, we aren't shy about building a spec tyre. We aren't just here to give the the hottest and stickiest we have on our shelves. You tell us what you want to race on. Check Box Ticked

[Knowlesy]

Oh I have no doubt Pirelli are happy. They are very different to companies like Bridgestone and Michelin in how they operate, nowadays at least.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

A tyre company should be in the sport to stretch and better itself IMO.

Michelin took a tyre to the 2005 Indy GP that was, in effect, dangerous, and it couldn't be proven to be dangerous until Ralf Schumacher hit the wall. Not sure how much that hurt Michelin tyre sales. Probably not that much. But since then the FIA has always been wary about just how far tyre manufacturers are pushing the limits of a tyres structural integrity in order to make a faster tyre. The FIA has no control over the construction of the tyres other than the overall dimensions of them, which was also the focus of far too much attention during the 2003 season. A spec tyre would always be less problematic with regard to its construction.

Pirelli can make a tyre that would easily last an entire race distance. The fun begins when two tyre manufacturers make tyres that should also last a race distance and the tyre also needs be be faster than the other manufacturers tyre. That's when corners start to get cut, if you'll pardon the pun.

[wnut]

Speaking of revolutionary tyres, have you seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wAvxQfusWU

[numbersix]

The honeycomb support system will snap a long time before air will.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Texas, for example, would not have been the same if everyone's tyres had melted on lap three.

Very true - John Watson mentioned in the BBC R5 commentary that because the drivers knew they could properly lean on the tyres they could race each other lap after lap rather than having only one shot like Raikkonen did at Bahrain.

We're not going to get away from spec tyres but I have my idea of how things should be.

Drivers would have two types of tyre available to them over the weekend, Qualifying and Race tyres.

Qualifying tyres would be akin to the current softs - not one shot tyres that disintegrate after a couple of laps but tyres that will last around 10 laps while providing good grip. The teams would have four sets per car each weekend + those that get into Q3 get a free set for that session.

Race tyres would be hard tyres designed to last for the entire race and slightly longer. The teams have three sets per weekend, one of which is held on reserve for the race and another as an emergency set in the case of a puncture. This is the only tyre that is used in the race and there are no pitstops unless there is a puncture or wet tyres are required.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by johntt

We're not going to get away from spec tyres but I have my idea of how things should be.

Don't we all.

Originally Posted by johntt

Drivers would have two types of tyre available to them over the weekend, Qualifying and Race tyres.

Pirelli did suggest the use of qualifying tyres, but the teams said no.

Originally Posted by johntt

Race tyres would be hard tyres designed to last for the entire race and slightly longer.

The problem with having tyres that do that is that, over a full race distance, one car will be far superior to another because it uses that particular tyre better at that particular circuit.

It would also be difficult to make one tyre that lasts "for the entire race and slightly longer" for every car on the grid. Would you make the tyre last for the car that wears out its tyres faster than some other cars? How could you possibly know ahead of time how long lasting to make that tyre? Would you also use the same tyre at Monaco that you also used at Monza?

It could be good because there would be different winners for each and every race. But you may also have teams complaining that the race tyre, or the qualifying tyre, suits one particular car more than it suits some others. At the moment the teams can choose between two tyres that will suit most teams on the grid for either qualifying, or the race. This at least allows for some form of strategy with regard to tyre use.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Don't we all.


The problem with having tyres that do that is that, over a full race distance, one car will be far superior to another because it uses that particular tyre better at that particular circuit.

It would also be difficult to make one tyre that lasts "for the entire race and slightly longer" for every car on the grid. Would you make the tyre last for the car that wears out its tyres faster than some other cars? How could you possibly know ahead of time how long lasting to make that tyre? Would you also use the same tyre at Monaco that you also used at Monza?

It could be good because there would be different winners for each and every race. But you may also have teams complaining that the race tyre, or the qualifying tyre, suits one particular car more than it suits some others. At the moment the teams can choose between two tyres that will suit most teams on the grid for either qualifying, or the race. This at least allows for some form of strategy with regard to tyre use.

If the tyres remained consistent, then none of the teams could complain that they are being disadvantaged.
The tyre is a design parameter, get on with it.
I was going to say that they should just qualify on the race tyre, however the compromise between the qualifying and race tyres should make it more interesting.

Johntt's Watson quote is correct, if the tyre don't melt two equal cars could race the whole GP. The rules and DRS would tend to prevent anyone running away with the GP.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by johntt

Very true - John Watson mentioned in the BBC R5 commentary that because the drivers knew they could properly lean on the tyres they could race each other lap after lap rather than having only one shot like Raikkonen did at Bahrain.

We're not going to get away from spec tyres but I have my idea of how things should be.

Drivers would have two types of tyre available to them over the weekend, Qualifying and Race tyres.

Qualifying tyres would be akin to the current softs - not one shot tyres that disintegrate after a couple of laps but tyres that will last around 10 laps while providing good grip. The teams would have four sets per car each weekend + those that get into Q3 get a free set for that session.

Race tyres would be hard tyres designed to last for the entire race and slightly longer. The teams have three sets per weekend, one of which is held on reserve for the race and another as an emergency set in the case of a puncture. This is the only tyre that is used in the race and there are no pitstops unless there is a puncture or wet tyres are required.

I like you.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by wnut

If the tyres remained consistent, then none of the teams could complain that they are being disadvantaged.
The tyre is a design parameter, get on with it.

We have "consistent" tyres as a "design parameter" already, and the teams "get on with it".

How hard will your "consistent" tyres need to be? Could you test these tyres pre-season? What would the penalty be for changing a flat spotted tyre during a race?

Under the current rules, you can manage a flat spotted tyre quite well if you know that you can make a change without penalty, and it would only compromise your strategy depending on when the tyre was flat spotted.

Originally Posted by wnut

I was going to say that they should just qualify on the race tyre, however the compromise between the qualifying and race tyres should make it more interesting.

I agree. Pirelli suggested qualifying tyres and the teams didn't want them.

What can you do?

I also agree that two equal cars could race the whole GP, but what if there aren't two equal cars, and your only chance to beat your rival is to use a clever strategy? What clever strategy can you use in a race where there are no tyre stops?

Having said all of that, a little bird tells me that if Pirelli retain their contract to stay in F1, there will be talks about race distance tyres, but mainly because the teams will have enough trouble coping with the new regulations without having to worry about tyre strategy.

[wnut]

Certainly you'd get to test the tyres pre-season, and as it is a spec tyre you'd get to run on it unchanged at all the GPs.

Tyre choice: Standard, Wet.


Given that the tyres would be pretty durable, the penalty for a bad flat spotted tyre would be a pit stop I guess.

The more variations the better, I guess that is contradictory, but each team will get some variations better than others.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by wnut

Certainly you'd get to test the tyres pre-season, and as it is a spec tyre you'd get to run on it unchanged at all the GPs.

So, those first tests would be all about matching the tyre to the car?

Originally Posted by wnut

Given that the tyres would be pretty durable, the penalty for a bad flat spotted tyre would be a pit stop I guess.

Well, that would certainly ruin your whole day, assuming that the cars were evenly matched.

I guess that the drivers would be thinking a lot about not flat spotting a tyre and the consequences of that if they did (double vision, etc), particularly since there would be no chance of their rivals needing to pit at any time if they also thought that not flat spotting a tyre would gain them more time than simply driving flat out, and risking a flat spotted tyre. A sort of 'tyre nursing' formula...oh, wait.

What if the driver flat spots all of his tyres three quarters of the way through the race, for example, he gets caught out by a back marker, or it would appear that he was caught out by a back marker? Four better tyres when he pits?

I'm not keen on this. It makes me think that most of the races will be won after the first couple of corners. I thought people didn't want that?