foreign GPs marshals' celebrations

[Clive]

Why is it that at lots of foreign GPs the marshals go trackside and wave their flags etc in celebration of the winner, but we are not allowed to do this at the British GP?
I know it's not because we don't want to, at least most that I've spoken to over the years would like to but it seems we are too scared of not being invited back evidently if we did!!

[mark_l]

I agree the marshals waving all the flags on the slow down lap adds to the spectacle and gives a chance for the marshals to thank the drivers because we are too far back from the track for the driver to see a marshal waving a hand or applauding.

The problem is with the gutless MSA who are probably too worried about a marshal getting hurt by twisting an ankle whilst walking across the grass or a wrist injury from waving flags the size of duvet covers, and having a claim made against them.

[Red Baron]

......or maybe the MSA just don't want someone getting hit by an F1 car, which is likely to still be doing a reasonable speed on it's slowing down lap and could still lose control and crash!!

I think that standing on the edge of the track just to wave a flag at the drivers is taking an unecessary risk.

Just my opinion of course.
Rosie

[thebear]

The same thing happens each year at Le Mans and there are no cautions from the organizers. It does get problematical as sometimes the flagwaving commences as soon as the checkerd flag is announced at 16h00, regardless of the fact that approaching cars have not yet seen it!

Also, many `Postes' have more than 30 marshals and it does get crowded at trackside.

[Mark Mitchell]

I was once told by the Chief Flag Marshal of the GP that "We're British And Don't Do That!"

[lynxlad]

what happens if an incident occurs on the slowing down lap,
how is it controled if all the flags r trackside?
i thought we were being sensible.

[Mark Mitchell]

What if?..........what if?.............?

Life is full of "What Ifs"

I prefer to think it's the fuddy-duddies in the BRDC that would frown upon any Marshal looking like they were having fun, rather than the MSA.

[scorch]

Well personally, i think it looks awful. There is no need for it.

It just looks like everybody is so desperate to get on TV or to make an idiot of themselves...

[chezza]

I have to agree there.

Also in a lot of places the GP is the last race of the day, for us it isn't. I think it would be hard to get everyone back in position for the next race if we were to all dash out to wave the flags.

[jonbryant]

The pace lap of the Nurburgring 24hrs has all the crowd and marshals trackside slapping hands with the drivers... By the time the last group have gone past the leaders are almost back round on lap 1. Adds a sense of urgency to clearing the track...

[Mark Mitchell]

But you should all be dashing out to check the track anyhow, so I don't think being away from post is a problem.

[racerkeke]

Champ Car encourages us to do "the monkey dance"* at the end of all races they sanction, whether main event or support race. The rule is that not every worker participates (for instance, comm usually picks up the yellow in case of an incident on the cool-down, and anyone posted where there are no flags stays on post and alert), and if anything occurs in your area during the cool-down you flag the incident. Because of the landline , comm can ensure that proper upstream backup occurs for a waving yellow. And, yes, if you see Champ races where post-checker doughnuts (or croissants in the case of Bourdais) are being done you should also see a waving yellow covering the doughnuts. It's not often visible on TV since TV tends to avoid us, but I bet you can see it on the tape of Long Beach from Turn 9.

We use our good judgement about whether to go to the edge of the track with the flags. In many cases it isn't possible so we do the dance thru the flag holes in the fence. Remember, we do this in the most litigious country in the world, and it works fine.

* Please note that the term "monkey dance" is not derogatory in any way. It's a direct translation from the Spanish slang term used by the Mexican workers -- they requested the privilege of giving the cars and drivers their highest accolade for the inaugural Mexican race. The term is now used at all Champ Car races, altho in Oregon it's also known as "the Dover wave".

I've never really been able to figure out why the English workers don't do it. Is it because someone thinks you don't have enough brains to do it safely? Or is this a manifestation of the "stiff upper lip"?

cheers,
keke

[Hepatic]

Originally Posted by racerkeke

Or is this a manifestation of the "stiff upper lip"?

it must be!!

i think the flags are a bit OTT and confusing should something have happened, but going towards the edge of the track once the last racing car has past shouldn't be a problem if done sensibly. I think spectators at Oulton are closer than marshals at Silverstone, and it is nice to be able to show appreciation thats going to be seen...

[Paul Newns]

I think the people who would like to display flags at the end of a GP are fogetting what the flags are there for, which is communicating. How many times have cars stopped on the slowing down lap? How do you warn the drivers of this if everyone is waving everything? If you are working on a car trackside you want the cover that a yellow provides, or at least I would. If a car blows up and drops oil or coollant on the track the other drivers need to know or you may get a whole bunch falling off on it. Then what would the FIA/MSA etc say, especially if someone got hurt?

So don't lets drop to the level of other countries. We use the flags correctly, for their intended purpose, not to put on a show.

Sorry if I sound boring. I do enjoy myself marshalling, as anyone who's ever worked with me will know, but I also think safety comes before anything else.

[scorch]

Originally Posted by Paul Newns

So don't lets drop to the level of other countries. We use the flags correctly, for their intended purpose, not to put on a show.

Well said, of course last weekend there seemed to be an escalation from the flagwaving to kneeling on the circuit and bowing to the drivers. I mean come on this just looks really stupid.

Something racerkeke raised i also think has a bearing on it is that Champcar sanction it, but then again in champcar you are closer to the drivers, not in distance but the safety teams get to personally know the drivers, In F1 we will never be allowed near the drivers, we are just considered members of the public at F1 events.

[Dave Brand]

Every time this crops up (which it does with monotonous regularity!) I quote an incident I was involved in at a BSB meeting at Oulton.

Two riders who had taken the chequered flag & were more intent on waving to the punters than looking where they were going touched at Old Hall. One of them ended up lying, winded, on the track while his bike carried on for about 50 metres until it hit the tyre wall. If the marshals had been trackside waving random flags, firstly, one of them could well have been hit by the riderless bike, secondly there would have been no way of warning the rest of the riders of the hazard. I've also known at car meetings, on at least two occasions, incidents serious enough to require red flags happening after the leader has taken the chequered flag. The need to warn drivers that there the track may be blocked & that there will be marshals working trackside is just as present on a slowing-down lap as it is mid-race.

'Fuddy-duddies', 'gutless', 'stiff upper lip', etc.....all very emotive stuff, but how about 'common sense'?

[racerkeke]

Hey, I think you guys didn't get what I said. We don't stop flagging for incidents to do this!!!! Go back and read my original post.

But it does require either a landline or good radio <g> to make it work. That may be the missing link?

BTW, we also don't tend to do it for anything but pro events. Don't think I've ever seen it for club events.

keke

[Woolley]

As keke says, it was positively encouraged at Surfers, but accompanied by a reminder to keep someone on the landline in case the flags were needed for their normal purpose.

It did feel strange, never having done it before, and I'm really not sure I'd want to do it again - all a bit too demonstrative for us reserved British types. I much prefer the subtle wave, which can be upgraded to applause for a driver who'd particularly inpressed you in some way.

[chezza]

You say that people remain so that you can continue to flag...but how do you know whos waving flags cos they're celebrating the end and whos waving for an incident?

Also Dave has a very good point and example there.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by chezza

You say that people remain so that you can continue to flag...but how do you know whos waving flags cos they're celebrating the end and whos waving for an incident?

Also Dave has a very good point and example there.

I didn't like to ask, since I was a guest, but I can say with complete confidence I have no idea...

[PVDA]

So if someone jumps off a bridge do you follow them??

Just because some marshals in some countries are allowed to wave thier flags at the end of the race doesn't mean we all have to.

As mentioned earlier, we are there to do a job.

[racerkeke]

Chezza, all flags go down pronto if there's an incident, except the waving yellow, which the communicator usually holds during the monkey dance. Yes, we can do two things at once! Usually the regular yellow flagger takes the flag from the comm as soon as all flags are down, or will have seen/heard the incident and got all flags down and started the yellow anyway. They know the rules as well as anyone else -- the first inkling of an incident or a doughnut and they know what to do ('cause the captain has gone over it in his/her raceday briefing). If there is an incident the comm tells the upstream and downstream stations so the correct flags can be displayed there as well -- no monkey dance.

And I don't say everyone has to do it. I just think that if it's okay with Race Control and you can do it safely, and you want to because it was a great race, then it's fun. And isn't fun the whole idea?

keke

[jim69]

I dont think that the MSA condone the marshals having fun!!
In fact it has been rumered that if you have fun you are not allowed back.

[garybirch]

How about not waving flags at the end but throwing back the visor tear off slips, pieces of debris, rubber and bodywork that they've thrown at us during the race? Then we could keep the flags for any slowing down (or throwing rubbish caused) incidents!
:-)

[mark_l]

Originally Posted by jim69

I dont think that the MSA condone the marshals having fun!!
In fact it has been rumered that if you have fun you are not allowed back.

I think there is a rule in the Blue Book about that, I don't have my copy to hand so could someone please post it here.