Jaguar are pulling out of F1

[EERO]

I don't even know where to begin; the whole thing just makes me sick.

First off, my condolences and best wishes to everyone at Jaguar Racing and Cosworth and Ford Mortorsports. You deserved better.

In the sad pathetic history of Formula One Teams, I am hardpressed to think of a comparable situation to the one in which a young, dynamic, efficient and close-knit Team becomes a bloated, ill-managed media circus.

Adam is correct. The questionable branding of the Team as Jaguar was suspect, and only served to dillute a glorious history of Sportscar Racing and muddy the idenity of Jaguar. But then again, JaguarRacing wasn't Jaguar-it was Ford's Formula One team. Ford bought Stewart and destroyed the Team. They had a good foundation to build upon, but the replaced sound materials and substituted flash and gimmicks and wasted money.
Steart Grand Prix will be missed, but the mess that was Jaguar won't be.

All credit to the guys on the Team-the rot set in at the head. Ever the best soldiers in the World will be slaughtered if they are led badly by fools.

Cosworth has too important a history to be lost. Even if Cosworth can remain is business as an independent engine supplier-they will need investors and some one will have to sign the paychecks. good luck to Cossie. THEY deserve better.

Finally onto F1- Prost and Arrows were the first two dominoes, but Ford, considering that the fortunes of THREE teams are potentially at stake has tipped the most letahal domino. With yet another Team potentially on the market, the valuse of Jordan and Minardi has been diminished. Maybe there is a buyer out there for one F1 Team with an uncertain engine supply; I doubt there will be two.

We will see three-car teams next season. The rules will need to be rewritten and we can look forward to Michael, Rubens and Luca finishing 1, 2, 3 and drivers like Heidfeld, Coulthard, will go begging for seats.

[EERO]

Originally posted by RaceFreak
This has been coming for some time. ...But no LASTING progress and a weak economy finally took it's toll. All the manufacturers have have been screaming to deaf ears for the past 3 years. The FIA and F1 Administration have been in some kind of denial, oblivious to what has been happening in CART and the IRL. Bernie was too busy accumulating personal wealth to address the difficult underlying problems which may now cause a house-of-cards effect on several other teams. Simply put, it's just too much money for a sport(?) dominated by two teams over the last 5 years. Make it cheaper and more competitive, or perish.

Well said, but I think that Max and Bernie are trying to fix it and the the MFR's have been unwilling to compromise. Everyone is fighting and the sport we love is whithering away.

[Rennen]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
Well if they are closing Coventry then I guess the F1 operation should go first...

WHY?...Who's to say that people employed in a factory building road cars for overcrowded roads are anymore more important than staff employed in a factory to build hi-tech racing cars?

Anyway as I understood the news only the Brownhills factory was to close and that most of the staff would be transferred to the other two Jaguar factories! They only had one racing car factory!

Anyway F1's essence has always been the survival of the fittest, look back at all the once great marques that have come and gone! Lets hope that a buyer comes forward.

[BootsOntheSide]

Rennen, it'd be a PR disaster if Ford clsoed Jaguar's historic plant, but continued with their money-sucking doomed F1 project. Sour grapes at Ant losing a possible drive?

[edit] Not only would it be inconsiderate, but it wouldn't be good business sense - I don't think they've bosoted sales of any Ford cars, least of all of Jaguars, through F1. Sports Cars is the only place Jaguars should race.

[Kicking-back]

Although production is being moved elsewhere, and some jobs are being created at Aston Martin, eleven hundred jobs are being lost.

It would have been quite insensitive to continue spending millions on F1 in the face of that.

[touringlegend]

Not at all surprised. Ford can hardly be seen to be splashing out on F1 when making job cuts on the production line.

Despite all of F1's bad points, I think this is certainly more a question of the shape of Ford's books at the moment. Don't get me F1 could be far cheaper but it's not the core of the problem, like some of the Jag/Ford suits are making out.

[Rennen]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mattmarvell
[B]How much of this is because it wouldn't be right to run a race team after making so many people redundant,

You can't be seen doing something as wasteful as motor sport when you are axing jobs.

"WASTEFUL"!!!!!!....No doubt you see road cars to go shopping in as essential!?
...What about the jobs at Jaguar racing!?

[BootsOntheSide]

Say what you like about the motor vehicle, but most of the 20th and 21st Century advances we value wouldn't've happened without it. The challenge now is to make them use renewable fuel where possible, but that's quite another story.

If Jaguar Racing and Cosworth are both successfully sold, I can't see many people losing their jobs.

[touringlegend]

Rennen, manufacturers are in the business to sell cars. No point in having an F1 operation if you've got no cars to sell is it?

I really don't see your point TBH.

[mattmarvell]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rennen
[B]

Originally posted by mattmarvell
How much of this is because it wouldn't be right to run a race team after making so many people redundant,

You can't be seen doing something as wasteful as motor sport when you are axing jobs.

"WASTEFUL"!!!!!!....No doubt you see road cars to go shopping in as essential!?
...What about the jobs at Jaguar racing!?

I don't think motor racing is wasteful - i was trying to look at the bigger picture of how many people that don't enjoy motor sport could see it.

maybe if more people brought Jags as shopping cars Ford would'nt be leaving and taking Jag with it

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Rennen
...What about the jobs at Jaguar racing!?

Before you paint us all as heartless

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
However, I feel for those who work there. Their future is uncertain. Maybe someone will take the team over and give it direction - something it could never have if it was Jaguar Racing IMHO. With a slice of luck it'll turn into something better.

Although I'm sure you weren't being specific.

While some of the jobs are being moved to a different plant there are still more going than exist in the whole of Jaguar racing. Although they are, for what this is worth, voluntary redundancies.

The F1 project does not contribute (directly) any money to Jaguar or Ford. It only spends it. The car manufacturer is the core business, it (should) make money. If that goes then there is no point in the racing team anyway!

Whatever you think about it F1 it is frivolous and I would argue that this is a positive. It is not attempted because it is an essential. It is above that. You don't climb Everest because there is something good at the top, you climb it because it is there.

Jaguar, for myself, was more than just a car manufacturer. A Jaguar was more thing to get from A to B. Consequently I am in some ways ideal to talk about this, but in a lot of other ways totally inappropriate to talk about this.

However it boils down to this. Ford is losing money, it can't justify spending tens (hundreds) of millions on an F1 team. Especially one that is not achieving. If it continues to do this hten it may well be more than just an F1 team that is put under threat...

I hope that this will be a positive for the team, that it can turn it round and without Ford end up with more direction and a solid future. How likely is that I don't know...

[kickstart]

So which possible buyers are there for Jaguar ?
I know that Arden fancy F1 but unless they have access to serious money that may remain an unfufilled ambition at this stage.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by kickstart
So which possible buyers are there for Jaguar ?
I know that Arden fancy F1 but unless they have access to serious money that may remain an unfufilled ambition at this stage.

see this thread: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=59685

[Knowlesy]

Unbelievable news........I expected a Ford branded team for next year, but a complete pull out? Shock.

It is very sad news indeed.......the grid is down to 18 and Minardi and Jordan aren't safe at the moment either.

I fear for grids over the next couple of years......are we at the stage now where we have to instigate three car teams?

[Hazard]

I don't think there should be any fear over there being three car teams.

An optional third car would be ideal - I think that may just help the sport a lot more. In the first instance, it'll be harder for Ferrari to ensure both Schuey's team mates never overtake him...

Thing is, those drivers who have negotiated hard to get what drives they've got will be pretty miffed if all the other top guys get to open a third seat up to all the losers...it's like your class getting a coursework extension after you've handed it in!

[QuickSilver]

the timing makes it pretty obvious that Ford saw JV coming back and decided to throw in the towel.

oh, and for those folks who gave me a pasting for saying Jag isn't really a Jag it's just a rebadged Ford ... well now you know who's pulling the strings.
-

[Adam43]

Originally posted by QuickSilver
oh, and for those folks who gave me a pasting for saying Jag isn't really a Jag it's just a rebadged Ford ... well now you know who's pulling the strings.-

:confused: Whoever thought any different?

[Teretonga]

This may seem a shock but it shouldn't be.
ford have had a bunch of executives who were pro motor sport and spent big on it but the car company just lurches along very unevenly.
Jag F1 lost HSBC and Red Bull (did they know?) and Becks so without the corporate thing it was never going to work. What would have happened had they bought Stewart and left jackie and co in charge?
Losing Cosworth is far more serious and will they sell that as part of the Jaguar package or as a separate company. Without Cosworth the value of Jaguar F1 is actually very small.
How many corporates can afford to run an operation that is worth about $20 mill but sucks $100-200 mill a year out of the parent company for no return?

[alesi95]

No shock here then. Been Threatening to pull out ever since 2002. Hate to sound cynical but this is probably the biggest wake up call f1 can get.

The worlds second biggest car Manufactuer cannot compete in F1 because it can't afford it.

Wake up will ya.

[jhansen]

Quote from Teretonga: "How many corporates can afford to run an operation that is worth about $20 mill but sucks $100-200 mill a year out of the parent company for no return?"

Indeed, return on investment is key for the manufacturers. Let's not forget that manufacturer investment is really just one big marketing/adverstising campaign. When it stops making sense then this is what happens. That's why manufacturer involvement in motorsport has always been fickel. When the wind blows another direction, or circumstances dictate, then off they go.

And no, I don't disagree that Ford's logic and methodology are not the best. Their results prove that. But as suggested, while tragic for people and negative for the sport, something positive may come of it for the good of the sport.

[f1manoz]

37 years of history gone in an instant. RIP Ford, Cosworth and Jaguar. They once supplied nearly the entire grid, now they will consigned to the pages of almanacs and books.

The beginning of the end is nigh. (I thought I'd just get the Doomsday post out of the way)

Comes as no surprise. It's been obvious Ford have been unhappy at their successin F1, and have been have been unwilling/unable to front the cash to help the operation.

But F1 needs to take a look at itself. When a conglomerate the size of FORD are pulling out due to competition and increasing costs, something is seriously wrong.

[foreversideways]

Lets face it Jaguar F1 was a marketing ploy to try and persuade younger guys into the Jag brand by association. Never going to work when when the whole range comes with pipe and slippers as standard. It never was a Jaguar Formula one team, it was a sham. Ford as the say are always a dollar short and a day to late.

[ranoff]

Whatever any of you say about jag brand associations etc, we in coventry are pretty darned proud of Jaguars heritage which Ford have hijacked in order to sell Ford platform products in high volumes for export. Now that has proved to be a stinker when selling against Merc and BMW and Audi you can see that this would happen. Round here there has been a sense of foreboding about the whole Ford ownership thing for ages. Even though Ford say the Whitley R&D palce is safe we expect it to go to Gaydon piecemeal. Don't expect a Ford competition return in near future.

[Armco Bender]

There in lies the problem,according to the US TV news I was watching this morning the USA is awash with unsold Jaguar road cars,no one wants them,infact people don't want all the cars the manufacturers are currently making,the world is awash with new cars that people aren't buying.
They seemed to think Ford was going to move Jaguar road car production to the US or just close the whole thing down.

[EERO]

Originally posted by Armco Bender
They seemed to think Ford was going to move Jaguar road car production to the US or just close the whole thing down.

What an appalling thought. I heard it too. Feh.