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Old 25 Jan 2012, 22:49 (Ref:3017093)   #726
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Hopefully im wrong but my suspicion is that the previous comments regarding a live stream and the fact that the race is only being broadcast on pay tv would seem to suggest to me that its unlikely atm.

Werent there something like 20,000 people who logged on at some point last year?

Ill be there in person but i know from previous years that the livestream provides fans at home the perfect opertunity to watch the race and it would definately be detrimental to the race not to have one in place.
The live stream was excellent. The chat that was going along with it was great too with a few teams and a couple of high profile drivers getting involved.
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Old 26 Jan 2012, 02:32 (Ref:3017169)   #727
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ff s conscience should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridff s conscience should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridff s conscience should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
http://www.bathurst12hour.com.au/tea...er-of-ferrari/
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 05:46 (Ref:3017613)   #728
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Great decision to turn your back on a production car field approaching 50 during poor financial times to go GT and struggle to break 30 entries ! NOT !
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 06:10 (Ref:3017618)   #729
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Great post.

Not sure where they turned their back on production cars
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 06:17 (Ref:3017619)   #730
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There are about 45 plus production cars sitting in workshops around Australia that are not going to Bathurst. Most were built with the 12hr in mind.
I LOVE GT's but can't see how this is good for Australian motor sport .... sorry motor racing.
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 07:23 (Ref:3017624)   #731
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......and everyone of those 45 cars had the opportunity to run in the 12hr.
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 07:29 (Ref:3017626)   #732
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There are about 45 plus production cars sitting in workshops around Australia that are not going to Bathurst. Most were built with the 12hr in mind.
I LOVE GT's but can't see how this is good for Australian motor sport .... sorry motor racing.
And why don't those guys get their cars out for the 6 Hour at Eastern Creek, or the Production Car championship? Spend tens of thousands of bucks to build cars and then have them sit around for 11 months of the year?
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 07:59 (Ref:3017636)   #733
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Meantime, will the Mosler still be running without Mr White Here
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 10:19 (Ref:3017697)   #734
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Great decision to turn your back on a production car field approaching 50 during poor financial times to go GT and struggle to break 30 entries ! NOT !
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There are about 45 plus production cars sitting in workshops around Australia that are not going to Bathurst. Most were built with the 12hr in mind.
I LOVE GT's but can't see how this is good for Australian motor sport .... sorry motor racing.
As others have highlighted, the cars are eligible to run - they aren't being discriminated against. Any lacking volume in regards to touring/saloon entries is the result of decisions made by touring car competitors - not the organisers. For what ever reason, be it bruised egos or genuine disinterest, many touring car teams have consciously opted against competing.

This topic has already been discussed to death in this thread.

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......and everyone of those 45 cars had the opportunity to run in the 12hr.
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And why don't those guys get their cars out for the 6 Hour at Eastern Creek, or the Production Car championship? Spend tens of thousands of bucks to build cars and then have them sit around for 11 months of the year?
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 10:25 (Ref:3017701)   #735
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ff s conscience should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridff s conscience should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridff s conscience should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Consider the bush fully beaten around....

the proddies are a bunch of sooks.

the end.
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 11:26 (Ref:3017724)   #736
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Hmmm.......you blokes could be a bit harsh on the proddy boys. Lets face it, with the speed differential they would be spending all day getting out of the way of the GTs, not actually racing........not exactly the ideal way to spend your Bathurst sojourn.
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 12:19 (Ref:3017750)   #737
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Subject done to death guys, fact is the 'speed differential' happens in every Enduro featuring class racing around the world.

We just have a special precious breed in prod cars here
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 12:42 (Ref:3017761)   #738
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Subject done to death guys, fact is the 'speed differential' happens in every Enduro featuring class racing around the world.
And in the opinion of many of us, it's what makes enduro racing so interesting. Leader disappeared 14 laps into the distance? So what, have you seen the 6 car battle for the prod class? All you need is for the commentators to be clued up and pointing out what's happening in the classes and the message will get across, and up here we have some guys who are very good at keeping us up to date. A bit of education is still needed for TV directors, unfortunately.

Really can't see the point in building a car for one race that it isn't going to win, to then not race it because there's some cars in another class it's not going to beat either.
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 13:11 (Ref:3017775)   #739
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......and everyone of those 45 cars had the opportunity to run in the 12hr.
Yep. No sympathy here. Stop sooking and get out there!
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 21:35 (Ref:3017963)   #740
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Hmmm.......you blokes could be a bit harsh on the proddy boys. Lets face it, with the speed differential they would be spending all day getting out of the way of the GTs, not actually racing........not exactly the ideal way to spend your Bathurst sojourn.
Its simple. A couple of years ago, the production cars were the headline act at the B12, there was a genuine opportunity for them to win or place well in the race, to get some teev airtime (albeit mostly via live streaming) and it was relatively easy to justify the investment to build, prepare & run a car for the B12.

When the GT class' introduction occurred, the production fellows were rendered mere class competitors. No guarantee of coverage, almost no chance of outright result. So why would a car owner like Rod Salmon for example, throw a couple of hundred thousand at TMR to run an Evo Lancer when the chances of outright success are between none and zero?

Lets not forget that most cars in either the GT's or Production car series are funding these gigs out of their own pockets. If they cant see that an investment from their own (or their business') pockets as valuable and worthy, given the product on offer, then it just isnt going to happen.

Pick on the production car blokes all you like, but its their money being spent.. and their call as to whether they do so or not, based on the competitiveness of the class they enter..
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 22:27 (Ref:3017978)   #741
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Its simple. A couple of years ago, the production cars were the headline act at the B12, there was a genuine opportunity for them to win or place well in the race, to get some teev airtime (albeit mostly via live streaming) and it was relatively easy to justify the investment to build, prepare & run a car for the B12.

When the GT class' introduction occurred, the production fellows were rendered mere class competitors. No guarantee of coverage, almost no chance of outright result. So why would a car owner like Rod Salmon for example, throw a couple of hundred thousand at TMR to run an Evo Lancer when the chances of outright success are between none and zero?

Lets not forget that most cars in either the GT's or Production car series are funding these gigs out of their own pockets. If they cant see that an investment from their own (or their business') pockets as valuable and worthy, given the product on offer, then it just isnt going to happen.

Pick on the production car blokes all you like, but its their money being spent.. and their call as to whether they do so or not, based on the competitiveness of the class they enter..
Phrasing the circumstances in any form doesn't change them - the cars, and competitors remain eligible. If they opt against competing, for what ever reason, this is their choice.

Multi-class competition is exactly that - entries competing across multiple categories, concurrently at the same event. If any competitor (touring or otherwise) feels their participation is no longer a sound investment, from a perspective of either commercial, or personal gain, their non-participation would seem entirely reasonable.

What isn't reasonable, is the 'poor us', event trashing mentality that many have adopted as a result of their no longer considering the event a viable exercise.
This behaviour is pointless, vindictive, and doesn't win them any support or, sympathy.

It's worth noting that most people in this thread (myself included) have only bitten when a poster has claimed the touring competitors are 'hard done by' or, they're facing discrimination on the part of the organisers. As has already been discussed, this is a tired, and unfounded argument.

Most people would enjoy seeing the local touring competitors in action at the 12 hour. They likely aren't interested in hearing them *****, pointlessly and unrelentingly about not competing.

Last edited by R4z3rw33n; 27 Jan 2012 at 22:32.
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 22:41 (Ref:3017984)   #742
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They don't mind multi-class competiton (that's what they had before), it's the multi-category competition they seem to dislike.
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 22:45 (Ref:3017986)   #743
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Look at the Britcar 24hrs in the UK and understand the support for the 'lesser' classes. Being a part of something bigger is often better than being top dog in something smaller.
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 23:00 (Ref:3017995)   #744
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Look at the Britcar 24hrs in the UK and understand the support for the 'lesser' classes. Being a part of something bigger is often better than being top dog in something smaller.
Actually, I think I saw some old Top Gear footage of that last week.........Richard Hammond in a diesel Bimmer took out a Mosler that was competing for the lead.
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 23:46 (Ref:3018003)   #745
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Its simple. A couple of years ago, the production cars were the headline act at the B12, there was a genuine opportunity for them to win or place well in the race, to get some teev airtime (albeit mostly via live streaming) and it was relatively easy to justify the investment to build, prepare & run a car for the B12.

When the GT class' introduction occurred, the production fellows were rendered mere class competitors. No guarantee of coverage, almost no chance of outright result. So why would a car owner like Rod Salmon for example, throw a couple of hundred thousand at TMR to run an Evo Lancer when the chances of outright success are between none and zero?

Lets not forget that most cars in either the GT's or Production car series are funding these gigs out of their own pockets. If they cant see that an investment from their own (or their business') pockets as valuable and worthy, given the product on offer, then it just isnt going to happen.

Pick on the production car blokes all you like, but its their money being spent.. and their call as to whether they do so or not, based on the competitiveness of the class they enter..
It's still an enormous sook anyway you look at it,

it's also a slap in the face by the sookers towards the promoters and tv co.s, showing they have no trust or confidence in getting their share of coverage.

Until they find out, they don't know.

And lets face it, anyone that used to watch the race for the proddies when they were top billing, will still watch for the proddies. Why wouldn't they?

The whole race could only get MORE interest with the addidtion of GT.

its ONLY ego that keeps the sookers away.

Stuff 'em, let those that turn up have the thrill of a better chance to win their race, with the added thrill of sharing an awesome track with some of the worlds top drivers and fastest cars.
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Old 28 Jan 2012, 00:32 (Ref:3018009)   #746
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Better class identification would help...

A range of 'real sized' coloured numbers / coloured backgrounds and maybe different coloured / sponsored windscreen and rear window banners per class would help everyone (spectators, tv crews and competitors) quickly realise who is really racing against each other.

This would also help when producing the edited highlight packages to ensure at the least the pointy end of each class get a chance to broadcast their sponsors.
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Old 28 Jan 2012, 02:53 (Ref:3018025)   #747
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Consider the bush fully beaten around....

the proddies are a bunch of sooks.

the end.
Let's be civil about it!
The prodies are copping unwarranted criticism from both ends.
From the fat cats who can afford to run a GT3 car out of their own budget, and those that are payed well to support and prepare their exotic gear.
On the other hand they are being criticised by those that can just about afford the price of an addmission ticket and a site in the camping area.
(Like me)
The organiser have decided that more blokes like me will turn up if they have some glamourous and exotic cars running. Promoters decision and they could be right. Even for a live feed, TV or highlights package the coverage will concentrate on those glamourous cars.
The prodies are mostly blokes at a less exotic level of business. They need some sponsorship, or at least a guarantee that they gt enough exposure for their own business to justify the outlay. If they aren't the most glamourous cars out there, or they aren't running for outright, they won't get it. Simple economic decision, don't enter.
So don't abuse them, sympathise.
The concept of the race as a showroom event was destroyed by the lack of interest by manufacturers, importers and big dealers. The organisers made their decision based on how they could attract spectator and media interest. It's done, but one hopes that the new concept isn't destroyed by the people it most benefits, Australian GT, running off to play second fiddle in the V8SC band.
Meanwhile I'm looking forward to being there this year.
By the way are the GT owners who are not entered because they are saving the machinery fr Clipsal "sooking it?".

Last edited by Oldtony; 28 Jan 2012 at 03:00. Reason: add final comment
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Old 28 Jan 2012, 04:32 (Ref:3018034)   #748
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Let's be civil about it!
The prodies are copping unwarranted criticism from both ends.
From the fat cats who can afford to run a GT3 car out of their own budget, and those that are payed well to support and prepare their exotic gear.
On the other hand they are being criticised by those that can just about afford the price of an addmission ticket and a site in the camping area.
(Like me)
The organiser have decided that more blokes like me will turn up if they have some glamourous and exotic cars running. Promoters decision and they could be right. Even for a live feed, TV or highlights package the coverage will concentrate on those glamourous cars.
The prodies are mostly blokes at a less exotic level of business. They need some sponsorship, or at least a guarantee that they gt enough exposure for their own business to justify the outlay. If they aren't the most glamourous cars out there, or they aren't running for outright, they won't get it. Simple economic decision, don't enter.
So don't abuse them, sympathise.
The concept of the race as a showroom event was destroyed by the lack of interest by manufacturers, importers and big dealers. The organisers made their decision based on how they could attract spectator and media interest. It's done, but one hopes that the new concept isn't destroyed by the people it most benefits, Australian GT, running off to play second fiddle in the V8SC band.
Meanwhile I'm looking forward to being there this year.
By the way are the GT owners who are not entered because they are saving the machinery fr Clipsal "sooking it?".
I still disagree.

When it was just proddies, you got minimal tv, and maybe live streaming...

now with GTs, you get a better coverage/exposure.

Sure, they won't get the same % of air time as if GTs weren't there...

but they're getting a % of a much greater audience... net effect, potentially greater exposure.....

after two beers, they'll all admit to not going 'cos they can't win.

And you already know your final comment was not worth the edit!

Oh, and the showroom event idealology still stands, GT3 cars are still closely based on showroom cars, with the notable exception of the Mosler.

The Ferrari in particular is VERY road car underneath, even the engine is absolutely stock standard from a road car with only minimal mods to the timing chain tensioners.
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Old 28 Jan 2012, 07:49 (Ref:3018065)   #749
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Oh no...what has happened?...I'm in total agreement with FFC...
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Old 28 Jan 2012, 08:40 (Ref:3018070)   #750
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Oh no...what has happened?...I'm in total agreement with FFC...
You poor b**t**d.......don't give up hope, there may be a cure.
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