IRL shows no talent other than a select few

[billaboy]

These drivers only go around in circles? Don't you think it shows more driving skill to do more than just make left had turns and go fast? I mean how can you people watch these cars go around in circles for 3 or 4 hours? IRL is a cheep rip off of Cart and Formula 1. Shame on Penske for moving to IRL! I mean he was one of the reasons IRL was created in the first place! Cause the other teams couldnt afford to keep up with his tecnology and check book, so they started IRL. I mean even those redneck over at NASCAR do a couple of road races!

[Down F0rce]

Oval racing needs just as much concentration as any other kind. It takes a lot of skill to race side by side at over 200MPH. And that's exciting. You clearly don't agree, but thats your opinion. and we have ours.

[Neil C]

Originally posted by billaboy
I mean how can you people watch these cars go around in circles for 3 or 4 hours? I mean even those redneck over at NASCAR do a couple of road races!

Thanks for taking the time from your busy schedule to come tell us and the NASCAR rednecks what you mean. Not only could we be enjoying a much more enlightened form of motorsport, but we'd get to hang out with a classier bunch of people too!

[BootsOntheSide]

Billaboy's rant contains a few valid points.

Oval racing requires skill, I'm very convinced of that - 3 abreast quite often, over up to 500 miles with the wall inches away. However, as I've said before, oval ONLY is easier than CART's variety of racing styles, because different skills are required on their types of racing.

THe point that the IRL was started as an attempt to break the dominance of Penske seems valid - the initial IRL hype was of a cheap series for American drivers, and the original grid was quite weak, other than Scott Sharp, Tony Stewart and Kenny Brack. However, in reality I think the onyl aim was money for Tony George, something he's havign every success with.

[krt917]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
Oval racing requires skill, I'm very convinced of that - 3 abreast quite often, over up to 500 miles with the wall inches away. However, as I've said before, oval ONLY is easier than CART's variety of racing styles, because different skills are required on their types of racing.

Absolutely, oval racing obviously takes skill and concentration, but a mixed championship would be much better. I still wish there hadn't been the split in the first place, but then I'm sure I'm not the only one with that view!

[Neil C]

The two posts above make sense, but Billyboy's main point is contradictory, as well as inflamatory.

If there are very few talented drivers in IRL, why does it matter, since skill is not required anyway?

[Tim Northcutt]

I'm a fan of both IRL and CART and I appreciate the skills of the drivers in each series....

Many former CART pilots are now "driving in circles" for a reason....the validity of the series and the opportunity to win at Indy the biggest racing spectacle on the planet...

Personally, I'd match many drivers in IRL with drivers in other series head-to-head and they would hold their own, if not succeed...

I defy anyone to point out to me why Sam Hornish Jr., as an example, wouldn't succeed in just about any form of racing he attempted....

I watch all types of motorsports, and he is a natural...

[Jay]

Sam wasn't exactly impressive when he ran on road/street courses in Atlantic back in 99.... He seemed to do better on the ovals. He had one win on at Milwaukee, but didn't really show up on the road/street circuits. I think he's an oval driver only.

I don't like any form of oval racing much, but I even watched a stock car race the other day and somewhat enjoyed it. It was Cascar, on a short-oval. It was interesting contrast to openwheel, as they almost never stopped bumping into each other here.

[krt917]

Must agree with that - Hornish does look like he has that special something. Now to get him onto a road course.....

[Tim Northcutt]

Sam grew up racing carts...he knows how to turn right as well as left...

Give him some good equipment and a little time to acclimate himself and I'm sure he'd be fine...

[Jay]

I think he could do alright in Cart, but I'm not sure he'd be running at the front. He seems more like someone a team might hire as a #2 driver to run midfield. I'm just going by what I remember of him in Atlantic though...never seen him in the IRL. It'd be interesting to see what he could do in a Champ car, but I think the place he's headed is the $$$ of Nascar. He'll probably do well there.

[tanalised]

Jay, it pains me to say this; but there aren't many CART teams at the moment who actually hire drivers.

[Jay]

Player's, PK Racing, Newmann Haas, Rocketsports, Rahal, Patrick, Herdez and ASTJ all hire drivers... There are more pay drivers this year, but they are not the majority.

I don't think he'll ever come to Cart though, and I could care less if he did or not, there are about 20 others I'd rather see. Besides, the only other place he's heading is Nascar for $$$.

[climb]

In my opinion, out of the drivers recently hired into Cart, none is better that Sam Hornish

[racer69]

Who's paying the drivers salaries though, the teams or CART?

Oval racing takes just as much skill as road racing, Rick Mears was one of the oval masters.

It would be great if we still had a joint series, but the blame for the split is just as much CART's fault as it is Tony George's.

[tanalised]

I dunno, Takagi looks liked greased lightening!

[billaboy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by climb
In my opinion, out of the drivers recently hired into Cart, none is better that Sam Hornish [/QUOTE

Bourdais!

[climb]

It would be interesting to see them against each other, but an indirect comparison can be made.
With an acceptable engine competition, i.e. last year:
Sam proved better than ex-cart drivers (like De Ferran)
ex-cart drivers (firstly De Ferran) proved better than present drivers Tracy, Junqueira, etc .
Present drivers like Tracy, Junqueira etc are proving, don't say better, but not worse, than Bourdais.
If this logical chain is valid, it's hard to say that Bourdais is better than Hornish, isn'it?

[Jay]

The only driver in Cart, who came through Atlantics or Indylites with a worse record than Hornish was Rodolfo Lavin, and he was with the same team, and actually was FASTER than Hornish on the road/street circuits. Hornish is an oval driver, like Kenny Brack... look at what Brack did when he had to face a road/street challenge...not much. I think Hornish might beat the Cart guys on an oval, but never on a road/street course.

Who's paying the drivers salaries though, the teams or CART?

Of the teams I mentioned above, only ASTJ's drivers are getting anything from Cart.

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally posted by Jay
at what Brack did when he had to face a road/street challenge...not much. I think Hornish might beat the Cart guys on an oval, but never on a road/street course.

I agree with the second point, but you do realise that you're talking about the same Kenny Brack that finished second in the 1996 F3000 championship, and scored points in every road/street race in his CART rookie year? I'm not sure why he struggled so much in 2001 - he would've finsihed something like 11th from just the road points, and Rahal had a great oval setup anyway, Papis was up there with him.

[Jay]

Ricardo Rosset also finished 2nd in the F3000 Championship... I just think some guys have styles better suited to ovals, and Hornish is one of them. Those guys don't usually do well on road courses, and Hornish's record bares that out.

[jenna]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by billaboy
[B]These drivers only go around in circles? Don't you think it shows more driving skill to do more than just make left had turns and go fast? I mean how can you people watch these cars go around in circles for 3 or 4 hours?

what is the point of running around and around a track? or swimming from one end of a pool to another and back again? it's called sport. so what if they drive around in circles or triangles or in reverse or upside down? it's entertaining because it's competition and because it requires skill way above the level of the average person. who's to say what sort of course is most demanding? they both have their place, obviously, because they both have a strong fan base. if you could lower yourself to watching an IRL race or 2 you might see how talented the drivers are (and lets not forget more than a couple of them started off in your beloved CART).

[camcartfan]

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
I'm a fan of both IRL and CART

You have a funny way of showing it...

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally posted by jenna
who's to say what sort of course is most demanding? they both have their place, obviously, because they both have a strong fan base. if you could lower yourself to watching an IRL race or 2 you might see how talented the drivers are (and lets not forget more than a couple of them started off in your beloved CART).

Fair enough, but racing both types of courses in the same championship has to be more demanding ont he drivers, engineers and manfuacturers.

As an 'alternative' to CART, IRL will always be lacking until it adds some road courses, although half its field would be embarassed, just as half of CART's has been at times. Half the IRL field, plus half the CART field, and we'd have a great series again.

And would you have 'lowered yourself' to watching a few IRL races if your favourite driver hadn't switched allegiences?

[MichaelH]

I've traditionally favoured CART over the IRL, but last year I really got into the IRL and frankly as a series it is now the better in terms of wheel to wheel racing. It takes so much concentration to race on an oval that in my opinion guys who master that could be brilliant in CART....Sam Hornish is probably the best driver racing in the States right now. That's my take on it, anyway.