[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[TF110]

The holes will be (or an option to be) on the inner fender like the TS020. So they won't be so bad compared to the holes of today's LMP's.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I hear ya ..... But , we know the ACO arnt entirely happy with the fin thing , so possibily they will have a cunning new idea , and get rid of that abortion !!!

The holes dont bother me at all . Im just looking forward to seeing Porsche's interpretation of the new aero rules , which we dont know yet either ..... so sleep well for the time being Spyder ..... Im more worried about their 991 to be honest .

The 991 will look stunning. Unfortunately, it will lack a new modern powerful engine that will enable it to be competitive without BOP.

I think Porsche will push (if they are not already) for the two GTE class system as outlined during their Night of Champions. That way they can sell the RSR to customers (no need to be concerned with competitiveness as BOP will take care of that) and then perhaps introduce mid-engined car for the GTE PRO. Who knows?

[Maelochs]

A few interesting ideas here: “I never have quite understood the rush to source ex-F1 drivers for prototype racing. “

And

“Regarding F1 drivers not wanting to race in sports cars. I think if they wanted to do that, that is where they would be earlier in their career.”

One reason people choose ex-F1 drivers is because most drivers consider F1 to be the most competitive and most demanding form of racing in the world. Most drivers hope to get to F1 (and if you look at the records of most top-rank drivers you will see that borne out by their records.)

Drivers who were quick enough to earn a shot at F1 but not quick enough to stay there are proven to be among the quickest drivers in the world, just by having got an F1 test—there really is no higher accreditation.

Simply look at the record of most of the fastest sports car drivers and look where they raced or tried to race first.

This whole “Think they are too good for sports cars” and “if they didn’t choose sports cars first, forget them” is ridiculous to me. Naturally they all went for the top—these are competitive individuals. Drivers and team owners aren’t engaged in some silly feud to prove one type of racing is “better” than another—they all want to win, wherever and whenever they can. (See earlier comments regarding competitive nature.)

If a driver got a shot in F1 but couldn’t make a career of it, is he therefore crap. Crap like oh … Allan McNish, or Serbastian Bourdais?

McNish Left sports cars to try his hand at F1. Traitor! And Bourdais drove Formula Renault, Formula 3000, and IndyCar alonfg with driving at Le Mans—in fact, in 2008 he didn’t drive at Le Mans, Only if F1. Another traitor?

How about Tom Kristensen, who started in Japanese Formula 3000? I guess he is worthless because not only did he not start in sports cars, he didn’t even make F1?

It is clear to me (my opinion, obviously) why drivers try F1 first: money , prestige, and to drive the quickest cars on the planet. Simple.

It is clear to me why teams think ex-F1 drivers are quick—they couldn’t get F1 seats if they weren’t.

A few drivers have said they wouldn’t consider sports cars. In Michael Schumacher’s case I think this was a safety issue (too many wrecks caused by low-skill drivers in sports cars, in his opinion) and maybe also in mark Webber’s case (as far as he could make an F1 Red Bull fly, he went a Lot farther in a Mercedes.)

Maybe in the case of some drivers, there is a bit of snobbery (I have driven at the highest level, why would I stoop to sports cars?) but I don’t feel any need to be snobby in defense. That is a personal issue of an individual driver; I am not in a battle to validate sports car racing as equal to F1. Two different disciplines, each with its own merits. I like apples And oranges.

As for Porsche racing at PLM … I’d love to see it as I hope to be there, but … realistically, no way. Why would Porsche risk its car in a race with no upside? The best it could hope to do would be to run unclassified, and the worst would be to total the chassis in the first hour in an accident with an over-eager GTC driver (You know who you are, Pierre LeSaffre.)

I would expect that if Porsche wanted to run anywhere for hardcore endurance testing, they would rent Sebring as other sports car companies have done. I woul;dn’t expect to see the car run in competition until it is actually competing, as in the first WEC race of 2014.

I think wishes and hopes are warping the logic of some posters. In this case, I hope I am wrong, because ZI want to see the car and I am not sure I will get to a WEC race in 2014.

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

The 991 will look stunning. Unfortunately, it will lack a new modern powerful engine that will enable it to be competitive without BOP.

I think Porsche will push (if they are not already) for the two GTE class system as outlined during their Night of Champions. That way they can sell the RSR to customers (no need to be concerned with competitiveness as BOP will take care of that) and then perhaps introduce mid-engined car for the GTE PRO. Who knows?

I don't think. I've heard about a new engine with at least 480 hp, as reported from italian magazine Auto (wich is related to Autosprint).
http://www.auto.it/news/2012/12/10-1...he+911+GT3+Cup
I think Porsche will accept the challenge, and will not bet all on the BoP.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

In a way I'm dreading seeing a Porsche with honking holes and a Sailfish fin. It keeps awake some nights!

I don't really notice the holes and I'm getting used to the fin. In any instance, I have a feeling this car will be the prettier of three manufacturer efforts.

I can't remember an ugly Porsche at Le Mans.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I don't really notice the holes and I'm getting used to the fin. In any instance, I have a feeling this car will be the prettier of three manufacturer efforts.

I can't remember an ugly Porsche at Le Mans.

Looks prety...!! is fast :-)

ulrich baretzky said one time that if a car looks good is probably fast....

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Dario911

I don't think. I've heard about a new engine with at least 480 hp, as reported from italian magazine Auto (wich is related to Autosprint).
http://www.auto.it/news/2012/12/10-1...he+911+GT3+Cup
I think Porsche will accept the challenge, and will not bet all on the BoP.

Welcome back Dario!!!
It is the same Mezger engine as in the 997. Maybe some improvements (exhaust, etc) but essentially the same engine.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I don't really notice the holes and I'm getting used to the fin.

Both the holes and the fin sadden me tremendously. I can most probably manage the grief from the holes, but that fin just makes me want cry rivers.

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

In any instance, I have a feeling this car will be the prettier of three manufacturer efforts.

I fear it may be like deciding between The Elephant Man, Quasimodo and Frankenstein.

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I can't remember an ugly Porsche at Le Mans.

Neither can I...and that is what saddens me so.

[Brake dust]

The advantage of single seaters (F1, Indy) drivers have over GT drivers is a great deal of experience in driving high down force/aero cars. LMP cars have similar characteristics.

The disadvantage some of the current F1 drivers (that might be candidates for a Porsche LMP1 drive) is the lack of testing. The days of pounding around the circuit and providing feedback to engineers is gone in F1. Interestingly, Rebellion in working with Nick Heidfeld, commented that he was very good at providing feedback in setting up the car - which probably goes back to all of the testing that used to be done in F1.

[Mal]

With regard to ex F1 drivers I agree that all drivers should earn their place on merit.... but an ex F1 driver especially one with some success or longevity in F1 has some obvious prestige & marketing advantages. ... If ever I am watching a sportscar race with someone less familiar with it then they often take more interest when they hear names such as Fisichella, Salo, Bourdais and Heidfeld.

Recognisable names surely therefore help spread the word beyond those of us that eat, drink and sleep sportscar racing 24/7.

[kurski]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

A few interesting ideas here: “I never have quite understood the rush to source ex-F1 drivers for prototype racing. “

And

“Regarding F1 drivers not wanting to race in sports cars. I think if they wanted to do that, that is where they would be earlier in their career."

Prototype teams acquire ex-F1 drivers, because they are well-known names and Villeneuve fans want in France that he is a Porsche LMP1 driver in 2014.

[porman]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I think wishes and hopes are warping the logic of some posters. In this case, I hope I am wrong, because ZI want to see the car and I am not sure I will get to a WEC race in 2014.

First off, I think some of us here made comments about ex- f1 racers because we feel that they have a different mindset. This is not a blanket statement but they tend to be selfish. By this I mean that they don't have teammates and therefore don't need to change the set-up of a car to suite someone else. Another possible issue is that they race in what are essentially sprint races and aren't accustomed to the strategies that come into play for a 24 hour race. I myself don't view current f-1 racers as the best of the best. Some people just get caught up in the hype of f-1 and therefore think that the drivers are automatically the best fit if you need absolute speed. The problem with that logic is that there are far too many variables, especially in a 24 hour race.

What good is absolute pace if you can't take care of the car and lack the patience to get through traffic?



In regards to the PLM comments I think much of it is wishful thinking, at least on my part. My point was that Porsche may choose to get some publicity out of the event as they are so keen to do. They don't have to race the new car to do that.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by The Badger

The holes dont bother me at all . Im just looking forward to seeing Porsche's interpretation of the new aero rules , which we dont know yet either ..... so sleep well for the time being Spyder ..... Im more worried about their 991 to be honest .

We don't? Mike has leaked the the draft regs and also summarized the changes. We also know that reducing the fin size was looked at but the fins will remain.

[The Badger]

Who's Mike ..... and is this info spot on for sure ?

Where can I see this info please ?

[vincegail]

Mulsanne Mike, who has a very informative site called Mulsanne's Corner.
Scroll a little down below the Dome windtunnel model:
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newssept12.html

Or just go directly to:
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/2014%...29,%202012.pdf

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I can't remember an ugly Porsche at Le Mans.

I can ..... that ADA run Porsche 962C , the Cibie sponsored one ..... it was abysmal !!!

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I can ..... that ADA run Porsche 962C , the Cibie sponsored one ..... it was abysmal !!!

Wait till you see the hole filled sailfish that's on its way

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I can ..... that ADA run Porsche 962C , the Cibie sponsored one ..... it was abysmal !!!

You are joking! You better be anyway...

This looks miles better than any LMP. RS-Spyders are catastrophically ugly compared to this, let alone the trendy raised nose cars of today.
The only thing that's slightly wrong with the car above are the bizarrely-shaped TS030-like 'molten' headlights. I guess it's just a Japanese thing, that I'm not capable to understand.

[CyberMotor]

Per the discussion about ex-F1 drivers in sportscars... here is a photo of Johnny Herbert, former F1 driver, who had recently lost his F1 ride and was now sitting on the grid before the start of the 2001 PLM. Does he look happy to be where he is at the moment?

[vincegail]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

Per the discussion about ex-F1 drivers in sportscars... here is a photo of Johnny Herbert, former F1 driver, who had recently lost his F1 ride and was now sitting on the grid before the start of the 2001 PLM. Does he look happy to be where he is at the moment?

He looks focused in my eyes.

[MagVanisher]

I wonder if they would sell their LMP1 cars to privateers and customize them just like the 962?

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

Per the discussion about ex-F1 drivers in sportscars... here is a photo of Johnny Herbert, former F1 driver, who had recently lost his F1 ride and was now sitting on the grid before the start of the 2001 PLM. Does he look happy to be where he is at the moment?

Maybe he was not sure if he had left his iron on or something.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

I wonder if they would sell their LMP1 cars to privateers and customize them just like the 962?

Currently against homologation rules... at least anything significant.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

You are joking! You better be anyway...

This looks miles better than any LMP. RS-Spyders are catastrophically ugly compared to this, let alone the trendy raised nose cars of today.
The only thing that's slightly wrong with the car above are the bizarrely-shaped TS030-like 'molten' headlights. I guess it's just a Japanese thing, that I'm not capable to understand.

Im saying its an ugly Porsche , and yes , in my opinion , they should be shot in the balls for doing this to a 962C , and making it look ugly .

I dont particulalry like the present rules and agree Group C was better ..... but we gotta live with these rules ..... and again , yes , that car was ugly , and their aero mods didnt do **** either !!!

No , I saw that car , and the troubleing thing was that abortion of a tail aero extension ..... it was disgusting , end of . The raised nose of today is equally sad to be honest .

I believe the rules need to be changed ..... to what I dont know , but we all have dreams of what is right and what is wrong .

Get rid of engine limitations , get rid of ride height rules , get rid of that abortion vertical wing ..... allow as much downforce as they want , allow a real rear wing .....

and most of all have the decency of asking the drivers who drive these machines , what they want .

Many months ago I posted a comment on what I thought should be going on ..... Guy Smith responded by saying " now we are talking" ..... from the horses mouth , I agree too .

[lucky snake]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

Does he look happy to be where he is at the moment?

do you generalize the whole former f1 question only judging the face of jhonny herbert in a pic?



also in this pic alonso doesn't appear like the happiest guy in the world and he still drives an f1. Maybe is he not happy to still be in the circus?