24h Nürburgring 2008

[Slippy Diff]

Originally Posted by rcarr

Who won? I missed it all this morning, I didn't get to sleep till gone 4 for some reason!

If you're stopping up until 4am, try viewing this thread you started and post some replies!! http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97037

[skycafe]

Good for VW, a class win with Stuck as one of the driving compliment.

What happened to Alzen Porsche?

[SirLonzo]

no more propulsion, they changed the gearbox and a power train before, so I think one of this part broke again and they don´t made it back to the pits...

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Satorian

I pretty much only remember the Schall Astra and the V8-Stars. Don't know the reasoning behind their creation.

Back in 03 Opel and Audi entered DTM cars as factory teams. That's how E1-XP came about.

SuperGT/JGTC have always been busy switching around engines as rule sets, balancing and restrictors changed, so I looked it up. Currently they are actually running a KE45DE, not the VQ30DETT. Some other engine then, and 4.5l isn't really optimal, being too big for SP7 and too small to develop a whole lot of torque and power useful in SP8.

You're right about the V8, but I'm not sure I agree that it wouldn't work. The Viper makes about 510hp, according to Zakspeed. The GT500 make about 500 with air restrictors, which they wouldn't have to use at the Ring. And 4.5l means better fuel efficency than 6.2.
Besides, the GT-R isn't exactly light. I don't know if it would even be possible to get it down to the minimum weight for SP7, so SP8 might be a better option.

Perhaps bring back the SR20DET, stroke it and use it. OR the iconic RB26DETT, sleeve it and use in a single turbo app.

Don't think these would fit in the GT-R too well...and the RB26 would mean SP8 too

For some reason I think they'd like to continue using the engine the GT-R is equipped with, so they'll have to work something out. Perhaps accept some harsher boost level limit.

That would be the Mosler problem all over again...

Yeah, I know the Getrag engine's history, which is why I edited my post before you replied. To be rules compliant, it needs a manufacturer serial and be used in street form somwhere in principle though I think. Just like the BMW-Mader-AbtDTMAudiTTR engine is based on a standard block.

Is it? I thought it's the one that was developed purely for racing and ended up in the M3 GTR as well (although that obviously saw some road car use later...though not by BMWs choice )

This is what I wondered about with the GT500 engine, especially as they are switching engine regs to this LMP2-like rule set soon and offer a lot of leeway in building the cars.

I looked it up now. The rules don't say anything about the engine being used in road cars.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by SirLonzo

no more propulsion, they changed the gearbox and a power train before, so I think one of this part broke again and they don´t made it back to the pits...

Thanks! Awesome car, I love Turbo Porsches.

Welcome to Ten Tenths also!

robert

[SirLonzo]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Thanks! Awesome car, I love Turbo Porsches.

Welcome to Ten Tenths also!

robert

Thanks for welcome me

Yeah I like Turbos as well and the Alzen Team especially because they built all car by thye own without any Factory support.

I don´t know if you know, but take a look at the Alzen Team Website (sound very wrong to me, horrible english, sorry) -> http://www.juergen-alzen-motorsport....hp?inhalt=news (it´s in german but maybe interesting with a lot of pix)

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by SirLonzo

Thanks for welcome me

Yeah I like Turbos as well and the Alzen Team especially because they built all car by thye own without any Factory support.

I don´t know if you know, but take a look at the Alzen Team Website (sound very wrong to me, horrible english, sorry) -> http://www.juergen-alzen-motorsport....hp?inhalt=news (it´s in german but maybe interesting with a lot of pix)

Ihr Englisch ist dann mein Deutscher besser.

With a bit of help from Bablefish and some recollections of long ago school study, I have done ok on Alzen's website!

Yes, them building the beast on their own is part of the enthralling part of their story. Oh course, the whistling, spluttering and banging on over run of a Turbo Porsche engine, and the awesome acceleration are the other parts of the appeal!

robert

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Yes, them building the beast on their own is part of the enthralling part of their story.

Besides, they really know how to do it. The car had only done 300 km before the 24h (according to Menzel) and lasted well into the night (or more than 2 VLN distances). I'm sure they will be a contender for VLN wins from the next race on.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Besides, they really know how to do it. The car had only done 300 km before the 24h (according to Menzel) and lasted well into the night (or more than 2 VLN distances). I'm sure they will be a contender for VLN wins from the next race on.

Yep, I knew it would start to come right, they have a lot of prior experience with the drive train, just need to unkink some things.

I noticed that I mentioned noises with Turbo Porsches, and I forgot to mention.......FLAMES. Big gouts of flame on over run lighting up the night sky!

FLAMES ARE GOOD!!!!!

Robert, Freund des Teufels (I hope bablefish isn't letting me down :-) )

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Robert, Freund des Teufels (I hope bablefish isn't letting me down :-) )

You want to do WHAT???




Just kidding, if you mean "friend of the devil" that's what it says

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

You want to do WHAT???




Just kidding, if you mean "friend of the devil" that's what it says

It went with my 'flames motif.'

And, in case neither of us was correctly translating it, I meant to say your mother looks really good in the army boots

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Ihr Englisch ist dann mein Deutscher besser.

Surely this should be "Ihr Englisch ist als mein Deutsch besser"?

[SirLonzo]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Ihr Englisch ist dann mein Deutscher besser.

Originally Posted by sceptic

Surely this should be "Ihr Englisch ist als mein Deutsch besser"?

Nice from both of you to try some german *thumb up*

[Teachermode on]
to be completly right it should be "Ihr Englisch ist besser als mein Deutsch".
[Teachermode off]

bablefish is sooooo bad at (german) grammar, I made my own experince with it

[SirLonzo]

BTT

I hope they will get some good results with the new Turbo in the rest of the VLN season. I think they´re on the right way and after the disappointing season with the cayman I would be grant it to them. And hopefully Uwe Alzen will come back if the car will be good enough for Podium...

... that would be perfect

[Satorian]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

You're right about the V8, but I'm not sure I agree that it wouldn't work. The Viper makes about 510hp, according to Zakspeed. The GT500 make about 500 with air restrictors, which they wouldn't have to use at the Ring. And 4.5l means better fuel efficency than 6.2.

I didn't say it wouldn't work. I said it wouldn't be the best solution. It always seems to be beneficial to go with pretty much the highest displacement allowed by the class. Also gives you a lot of flexibility to configure your mapping for different power, torque or economy target figures.

Besides, the GT-R isn't exactly light. I don't know if it would even be possible to get it down to the minimum weight for SP7, so SP8 might be a better option.

I'm pretty sure NISMO could do it. The topic was already touched on in some threads regarding a possible GT2, and my thought of line was that if Reiter managed to get the Murcielago, which hardly weighs any less, to 1100 kg, then NISMO probably wouldn't have much trouble getting the GT-R to 1100 kg in RWD spec or 1250 kg in AWD spec either.

Don't think these would fit in the GT-R too well...and the RB26 would mean SP8 too

I wasn't being serious with those engines. I just named them because they are iconic Nissan engines. Yet, as iconic as they are, they are also outdated.

That would be the Mosler problem all over again...

Not quite. For one, VLN rules for turbos have been notoriously instable from year to year. And then I always thought the times-1.7-rule and firm boost limit were kind of stupid. It'd be better to have a rule that assigns boost level limits by used displacement, which would allow a much broader application than just the 1.1/1.5 bar rule deciding by virtual displacement at 2800 ccm.

Is it? I thought it's the one that was developed purely for racing and ended up in the M3 GTR as well (although that obviously saw some road car use later...though not by BMWs choice )

I think the Mader engine comes from a normal street block (E39 540i perhaps? Or some other near-4-liter V8). The BMW V8 as used in the BMW Motorsport/Schnitzer M3 GTR race car never found its way into private hands. BMW never gave those away and the engine was the reason there had been no customer racing program for the M3 GTR. The Scheid and Getrag/Abt/Mader engines are different from those. At least that's the way I understood it.

I looked it up now. The rules don't say anything about the engine being used in road cars.

Actually the SuperGT rules do:
"Engine
◊Type and position of engine:
An engine that is produced by the original manufacture and is legal for road use and approved by FIA and/or JAF can be mounted. The mounting orientation, direction and location of the engine are without restriction provided the engine is situated within the engine compartment of the original vehicle."
The VLN rules for the SP classes speak of "serienmäßig" and "Serien-Block".

One would have to look at the allowed modifications then to assess whether a SuperGT engine could be used in a VLN car.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Satorian

I'm pretty sure NISMO could do it. The topic was already touched on in some threads regarding a possible GT2, and my thought of line was that if Reiter managed to get the Murcielago, which hardly weighs any less, to 1100 kg, then NISMO probably wouldn't have much trouble getting the GT-R to 1100 kg in RWD spec or 1250 kg in AWD spec either.

Though you have to admit that you can do a lot more when you're building a GT1.

I think the Mader engine comes from a normal street block (E39 540i perhaps? Or some other near-4-liter V8). The BMW V8 as used in the BMW Motorsport/Schnitzer M3 GTR race car never found its way into private hands. BMW never gave those away and the engine was the reason there had been no customer racing program for the M3 GTR. The Scheid and Getrag/Abt/Mader engines are different from those. At least that's the way I understood it.

I don't even know what Scheid is using. The Getrag/Abt/Mader/Mecachrome/Renault (guess what powers GP2 ) was apparently based on a street block, but after Mader was through with it there wasn't much of that left
And you're right, the GTR one is different.

Actually the SuperGT rules do:
"Engine
◊Type and position of engine:
An engine that is produced by the original manufacture and is legal for road use and approved by FIA and/or JAF can be mounted. The mounting orientation, direction and location of the engine are without restriction provided the engine is situated within the engine compartment of the original vehicle."
The VLN rules for the SP classes speak of "serienmäßig" and "Serien-Block".

One would have to look at the allowed modifications then to assess whether a SuperGT engine could be used in a VLN car.

Orientation, direction and location must match the road car in VLN. But "produced by the original manufacture and is legal for road use" sounds at least as strict as the VLN rules, so an engine that's legal in SGT would in principle be legal in VLN, if it fits the car in the original location.