2012 IndyCar silly season - Page 4

mountainstar · 7 Oct 2011, 18:02 (Ref:2967242)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac

Good point... However, I believe a lot of the frustration today is based in the fact that the unification was seen as a perfect opportunity to guide the sport in a more positive direction that captured the spirit of the former "glory days"...

Tony George undeniably started the rot... Tony George had a better "vision" than anyone else... And guess what? It didn't work...

But instead of unifying and starting all over again, harnessing concepts that actually appealed to fans (both casual and dedicated), concepts that had already worked... we get the sport's leaders running around in ever-decreasing circles, continually trying to re-invent the wheel, and attempting to create an open wheel lovechild of NASCAR and latter-day Champ Car...

I don't think anyone is suggesting for a moment that the current situation is entirely Tony George's fault - or that CART was immune from issues, either... However, almost undisputably George started it, he and his cronies destroyed it, and the current (or recent) administrations are flailing in their attempts to revive it.

You are on a roll, brilliant post.

The end paragraph, I couldn't think of a better way to say it.

mountainstar · 7 Oct 2011, 18:17 (Ref:2967248)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

I think this sport can be viable as a niche sport. If and only if it exploits all the hardcore racing fans there are.

And right now, it's not doing that well; in fact, it's putting most of us off with each and every headline.

I think IndyCar's problem, personally, is that it's a sport that won't appeal to the masses, but insists on trying with failed gimmicks, and in the process, alienates the only people who still could care about it.

Their ambition exceeds reality, and their ambition is met with botched effort.

I had all the demographics from 1994 and I don't have them readily on paper at the moment, but roughly at that moment in time, Indycar(CART) had about half as many fans as Nascar did, however those people earned approximately twice as much. At that time Indycar was also very profitable and had an excellent TV deal on ABC/ESPN while Nascar was bumping around 5 different networks.

I don't think aiming to be a "niche" is a good idea in terms of ending up as small beans like the irl is now, but you also don't have to appeal to every single person out there to make a living. The irl is definitely a niche sport now, the only people that care are a few motorsport nerds that missed CART in the glory days and a bunch of tony george and indy motor speedway desperate clingers. The general public in the USA cares not at all one iota.

The problem is now, is that the people running the sport are trying to recapture something they never understood. They were the people that back in 1994 chose to split the sport because they said what CART had sucked. Now they are essentially admitting CART was actually good, but because they were on the other side, they really don't understand the formula that made CART a sporting and business success. They will never get it and never be a success.

rustyfan · 7 Oct 2011, 22:02 (Ref:2967360)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Seems amazing that suddenly ed carpenter and sarah fisher racing find an amazing boost of speed to win a race, of course right when Dollar General is bailing out. Amazing.

It's not really that amazing - Carpenter has always been good at Kentucky and remember that he grabbed the pole and finished second there last year in an even more limited program and in even worse machinery driving for Panther Racing. In fact, he has an average finish of 7.4 in eight starts at Kentucky. That's a better average than that of Dario Franchitti and just slightly worse than those of for example Sam Hornish Jr. and Scott Dixon.

As for Dollar General, they bailed on Turner Motorsports in the Nationwide Series as well (leaving Reed Sorensen, third in Nationwide points, without a secure ride for the rest of the season). Rumours suggest they're heading for a limited program with Joe Gibbs Racing.

mountainstar · 8 Oct 2011, 00:00 (Ref:2967399)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustyfan

It's not really that amazing - Carpenter has always been good at Kentucky and remember that he grabbed the pole and finished second there last year in an even more limited program and in even worse machinery driving for Panther Racing. In fact, he has an average finish of 7.4 in eight starts at Kentucky. That's a better average than that of Dario Franchitti and just slightly worse than those of for example Sam Hornish Jr. and Scott Dixon.

As for Dollar General, they bailed on Turner Motorsports in the Nationwide Series as well (leaving Reed Sorensen, third in Nationwide points, without a secure ride for the rest of the season). Rumours suggest they're heading for a limited program with Joe Gibbs Racing.

Rusty, thanks for the statistical analysis, but I still find it a tangled yarn ball of amazingness and coincidence.

Yannick · 11 Oct 2011, 20:00 (Ref:2969493)

Let's talk about the 2012 car count now. Here's what I have heard so far:

Ganassi 2+2 (confirmed) Honda confirmed
Penske 2 or 3? Chevy confirmed
Andretti 3 or 4? Chevy confirmed
Newman/Haas 1 or 2?
Panther 1 + 1 at additional events? Chevy confirmed
Dreyer & Reinbold 1 or 2?
Foyt 1 or 2? Honda confirmed
Schmidt 1 or 2? Honda confirmed
Dale Coyne 1 or 2?
HVM 1
Conquest 1?
KV 2?
Rahal/Letterman/Lanigan 1?
AFS 1? (or is that the 2nd Schmidt entry?)
Herta 1? Honda if they are there
Fisher 1 on a partial schedule
Dragon ?
Highcroft ?
Shanks 1? "Judd" (but that is not for lease just yet)

Have other engine partnerships been announced yet?

**GTRMagic** · 15 Oct 2011, 09:17 (Ref:2971480)

MSR Indy Launches

With a 'Lotus' powerplant... have we heard any more from them?

Hawkwood · 15 Oct 2011, 17:24 (Ref:2971606)

What happens if/when the Lotus engine doesn't materialise?
Are the teams who opted for them screwed, or are there failsafes in place to give them Honda/Chevy engines?

Jacques Rabbit · 15 Oct 2011, 21:15 (Ref:2971681)

I assume it would be an unbadged Judd and INDYCAR would make sure the money was in place to get it out there since subsidizing the grid is very popular in American racing, currently happening in the IZOD IndyCar Series, Firestone Indy Lights, and Grand-Am, and having previously happened in both Champ Car and Atlantics (and CART before CCWS). Hell, even Ecclestone helps Williams F1 out, and I'm sure it goes on elsewhere. I think the consensus is a Judd engine will get built. The Lotus money just might not show up.

Vitor Meira and A.J. Foyt will part ways after tomorrow's race. I wonder if Honda will influence the new driver in any way, especially now that they've lost Wheldon to Chevrolet.

**GTRMagic** · 18 Oct 2011, 03:41 (Ref:2973073)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

It's called Return On Investment and Dollar General isn't getting any, so away they go. Who cares if they won Kentucky, if almost no one saw or heard about it.

From figures I heard the true media value of a single car irl sponsorship is worth less than $1 million, yet teams are looking for $5 to $10 million to run a car. That's why the series is dependent on team owners that can structure B2B deals like penske or pay drivers.

Looks like Dollar General have a $16m annual commitment to motorsport Here

marcostraz · 26 Oct 2011, 13:00 (Ref:2977110)

I read that Tagliani said he already had a contract signed for next year...my idea:

Tagliani raced at Vegas with Herta + Herta want to became a full time owner in 2012 = Tagliani with Herta next year?

Jacques Rabbit · 26 Oct 2011, 19:27 (Ref:2977341)

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcostraz

I read that Tagliani said he already had a contract signed for next year...my idea:

Tagliani raced at Vegas with Herta + Herta want to became a full time owner in 2012 = Tagliani with Herta next year?

That's been rumored for a little while now.

Apparently BHA's list included Sébastien Bourdais, as well, but I think that's a huge long-shot because everything I've heard suggests he wants to stay at Coyne.

Could end up being Simon Pagenaud if Sam Schmidt Motorsports disappears; he is (will be? was?) signed to SSM through Honda. If BHA are indeed a Honda team, that could play a role...get a Honda guy in the car.

Interested to see Briscoe feeling confident of staying with Penske. I don't think many expected three cars out of them.

And for a laugh...

China Racing is soliciting Antônio Pizzonia and James Jakes on Twitter about 2012, asking for their contact information. Given the legitimacy and professionalism of China Racing, I'm surprised they asked for email/phone and not AOL Instant Messenger.

Carsandmotorracing · 28 Oct 2011, 11:41 (Ref:2978166)

I bet Justin is going to Shank.

Jacques Rabbit · 28 Oct 2011, 15:26 (Ref:2978264)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carsandmotorracing

I bet Justin is going to Shank.

I thought so, too, but he apparently is in demand from Andretti Autosport, A.J. Foyt Enterprises, Dreyer & Reinbold, RLL, a special Lotus team built just for him, etc. I don't think Shank is going to be his best option in terms of winning...

kurski · 29 Oct 2011, 16:32 (Ref:2978636)

Indycar: Bertrand Baguette with the team of AJ Foyt?

Carsandmotorracing · 30 Oct 2011, 00:34 (Ref:2978750)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

I thought so, too, but he apparently is in demand from Andretti Autosport, A.J. Foyt Enterprises, Dreyer & Reinbold, RLL, a special Lotus team built just for him, etc. I don't think Shank is going to be his best option in terms of winning...

I thought the ride at AA is between Mike Conway and Josef Newgarden. But Helio could have the seat and add Justin into the equation, things will get interesting.

Carsandmotorracing · 30 Oct 2011, 00:36 (Ref:2978751)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurski

Indycar: Bertrand Baguette with the team of AJ Foyt?

Seems interesting, also heard his name be mentioned for a full time ride a RLL, Silly Season is in full effect right now!

**GTRMagic** · 2 Nov 2011, 10:31 (Ref:2980535)

So we have read about a Dallara Honda and a Dallara Chevrolet rocking around in testing...

Is there any news about a Dallara Judd?? The only 'confirmed' team for the Judd is Michael Shank Racing... Where is Dale Coyne on this??

Daisy · 2 Nov 2011, 21:29 (Ref:2980820)

I read Penske picked up an option Ryan Briscoe's contract so he will stick with Penske for another year. So 3 cars after all?

**GTRMagic** · 2 Nov 2011, 23:40 (Ref:2980876)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daisy

I read Penske picked up an option Ryan Briscoe's contract so he will stick with Penske for another year. So 3 cars after all?

Any suggestion of a backer?

jondownunder · 3 Nov 2011, 01:12 (Ref:2980896)

-Rahal/Letterman/Lanigan to run two full-time cars; possible third car at Indy 500.

-Ed Carpenter to drive for his own team sponsored by Fuzzy’s Vodka (name not yet announced); James Davison could drive on the road courses.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...rahal-in-2012/

**GTRMagic** · 3 Nov 2011, 01:57 (Ref:2980902)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jondownunder

-Rahal/Letterman/Lanigan to run two full-time cars; possible third car at Indy 500. http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...rahal-in-2012/

The RLL thing... only ordering 2 cars... are there no spares for 2012?

Daisy · 3 Nov 2011, 08:39 (Ref:2980962)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Any suggestion of a backer?

Verizon perhaps again? Haven't read more, sorry.

Juarez Jed · 3 Nov 2011, 10:07 (Ref:2981002)

Verizon only sponsored WP.
Ryan was sponsored in some races by IZOD and had various Penske corporation sponsorships as well (plus others).
No word yet on sponsorship in 2012.

jondownunder · 3 Nov 2011, 11:29 (Ref:2981031)

Carpenter's team will be called Ed Carpenter Racing and is co-owned with TG:

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...penter-racing/

Tim Northcutt · 3 Nov 2011, 13:22 (Ref:2981070)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jondownunder

Carpenter's team will be called Ed Carpenter Racing and is co-owned with TG:

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...penter-racing/

Good news for Ed...

I wonder where that leaves Sarah Fisher Racing?

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