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17 Apr 2012, 15:04 (Ref:3060971) | #1 | ||
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Fire Extinguisher Carry Strap
I was thinking of knocking up some sort of carry strap for a fire extinguisher so that it could be carried over your shoulder or on your back like a rucksack.
I’m sure I’m not the only one to have lost there balance jogging to an incidence over uneven ground with a bottle in both hands. If the bottle was on your back you could balance better, see the ground right in front of you easier and probably get down off the bank and to the incident quicker?? My thoughts are that it would have to be quite universal to fit different sizes and styles of extinguisher. To save fitting one to all bottles set out, it would have to be quick and easy to attach so you could run to the closest bottle to the incident with the strap, attach and carry on. Has anyone already tried this before? Do you think it could work? Do you think it would help or hinder you? |
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17 Apr 2012, 16:06 (Ref:3061007) | #2 | ||
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Not sure how well that would work to be honest. In theory it sounds good, but in practise, if were going to an incident 'at pace' , it might end up banging against the back repeatedly as you walk/jog/run to the incident, plus if you do trip you're going to have the extra weight of the extinguisher on top of you. They aren't the lightest of things to carry
I could be wrong of course, might be great ! |
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17 Apr 2012, 16:44 (Ref:3061032) | #3 | |
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Thats alot of weight to get onto your back in an incident situation,plus I think all the straps could get in the way of the basic function of the bottle.
Personally I dont think the idea will work very well |
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17 Apr 2012, 16:58 (Ref:3061038) | #4 | ||
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The problem would be when you fell flat on your face with an extinguisher on your back. I am fairly certain this would end up with broken ribs and possibly a damaged spine.
I agree the extinguishers are awkward and heavy - especially when you are short like me (an extinguisher will drag in the gravel for me - so I have to hold it higher with a bent elbow - which is even more uncomfortable). I wonder if the way forward is using slightly smaller extinguishers? Maybe 9kg instead of 12kg (have I got the weights right?). These are smaller and much easier to carry I find. My thinking is that we rarely discharge a whole bottle - and when we do we normally use more than one anyway. So I think in the real world it would make very little difference. Perhaps a post could have a mix of 12kg and 9kg - so you can use the most appropiate at the time? I suspect costs and resistence to change will be the issues here! |
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17 Apr 2012, 18:17 (Ref:3061080) | #5 | |
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how about getting more bottles at more gaps, so you don't have to carry them long distances?
or when a driver does come in to a post, make it clear where you would like him to stop (assuming he has enough control of the vehicle to make that choice) |
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17 Apr 2012, 18:28 (Ref:3061086) | #6 | ||
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I don't often reply on TT but on this one, DON'T do it. Fire extinguishers are designed to be carried by the handle and base in front or to the side of you. The extra weight on your back will have you over in no time along any sort of banking and if you had to get over a tyre wall no chance. Then you have to get it off your back to start it up. Bottle's are put out on the bank for a reason next to a "F" mark on the Armco or barrier if its on you back and you have to pass another one to get to the fire, well, I don't think you will get much support for this.
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17 Apr 2012, 20:26 (Ref:3061145) | #7 | ||
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17 Apr 2012, 20:32 (Ref:3061149) | #8 | |
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17 Apr 2012, 21:28 (Ref:3061172) | #9 | ||
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Curborough provide natty little trolleys, but I have to say I find them more trouble than carrying the bottle so I've never used on in anger.
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17 Apr 2012, 21:33 (Ref:3061175) | #10 | ||
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The thing is, if you trip while running with a bottle, you can just drop it. Bit hard to do if it's on your back. Good idea in principle (I agree, running with a bottle is knackering!) but this isn't the solution I'm afraid.
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18 Apr 2012, 07:19 (Ref:3061288) | #11 | ||
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As already said, Don't, DON'T do it. Use the extinguisher as per its and your training day training. If you change this and no one is aware and something happens, I am sure questions would be raised, worse case scenario, if you use this starp and delay fire fighting in a real incident because the strap failed in some way resulting in the delay then again I am sure questions would be raised.
I do have one question for you. You mentioned you carried the extinguisher in both hands? If you are doing this across your chest this is extrememly dangersour too, especially if you trip or fall( wait for the flack now) Extinguishers to be carried by the handle and you get to the incident as safe as you can. If you are having a problem with carrying extinguishers then please chat to your club, chief etc and see what can be done. Remember and I know its contraversal( I know someone will shoot me for this) you do sign on and that says as per the paragraph at the top of the sheet you are signing to say you are fit for that duty you are doing. incoming... |
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18 Apr 2012, 11:57 (Ref:3061444) | #12 | ||
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Except that at a previous training day I was told not to carry it by the handle as you could trip up, you should carry it in two hands across your chest. This followed a video where I was shown carrying one by the handle.
I followed this advice at a later meeting, and while heading downhill at Shelsley Walsh discovered that this had changed my centre of gravity and I was unable to stop, promptly falling over the car I was meant to be assisting and disappearing down the bank. Whatever you do, be careful when carrying a bottle, but I don't advise any sort of tools to assist. There's already the effect when you're running back to post and traverse the tarmac/grass-gravel interface, slowing your feet but not your upper body. I can imagine doing this with a bottle strapped to your back will be interesting. Unless, or course, you fancy a starring role on 'What happened next' sometime in the future! |
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18 Apr 2012, 12:17 (Ref:3061453) | #13 | |||
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Quote:
My problem with this idea would be the time it would take. If you were to design a "rucksack" to hold the extinguisher, you would need to fit it into the rucksack and then try and get the rucksack on your back and then reverse the process when you get to the incident. If there is a fire, seconds are very valuable. A good idea, in theory. Regarding bottles perpost, I heard this weekend, at Snetterton, that the MSA have said there should be only 2 bottles per post, though I cannot confirm this. |
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18 Apr 2012, 12:18 (Ref:3061454) | #14 | ||
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Thanks for all your comments guys. It's clear this ideas has flaws and is a non starter. Just to clarify this was just an idea put out there for experienced marshals to comment on. I wouldn't have modified equipment without first seeing what other marshals think of the idea, seriously testing it away from track and finally if it had ever been ready for use for real, got approval of my post chief and informed the team on post.
I would class myself as fit enough to do the job (31 years old and not overweight) I think the reason I do carry the bottles two handed (one on the carry handle, one on the base across the chest) is because I'm quite short (5ft. 4) With a locked arm the bottle isn't far off the floor on even ground, hitting the floor on uneven ground. It's always seemed the natural position, if that is wrong it's never come up. Last edited by Mike Harvey; 18 Apr 2012 at 12:23. |
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18 Apr 2012, 12:22 (Ref:3061457) | #15 | |
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Having spent several years actively scuba diving (as opposed to inactively, which I suppose is why I'm still here... anyway) I can assure you that running with a cylinder of compressed gas on your back isn't easy. I appreciate that dive kit weighs a lot more than a fire extinguisher so the effects are exaggerated, but most divers try to spend as little time and effort as possible fully kitted up out of the water simply because it's so bloody cumbersome to move very far*
Carrying extinguishers by hand, by the handle, keeps the centre of mass low and means you are far less likely to topple or overbalance. It also means that they can be deployed the moment you get near enough to the fire. *My rig when I finished regularly diving weighed almost 40kg when complete. I could hardly stand up, let alone move very far wearing it! |
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18 Apr 2012, 12:24 (Ref:3061458) | #16 | ||
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What Richard has said is good advice, I have always been told to carry it by the handle mainly, because this does not alter your center of gravity and so you are less likely to trip. Recently this has also changed to holding it backwards so as to speak (with the hose to the back) so if you are to trip/drop it the extiguisher will fall away from you and not in front.
If you are carrying it across your chest with both hands you are raising your centre of gravity and like Woolley may find that you aren't able to stop and also that you are more likely to fall over. I know there has been talks of moving to smaller extinguishers, although smaller the firefighting capability isn't greatly reduced and makes it easier to be carried for those who are vertically challenged and the increasing female marshalling fraternity. |
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18 Apr 2012, 12:27 (Ref:3061462) | #17 | |||
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Quote:
date =/= 01/04/20** WFM stop starting silly rumours. This is such an absurd idea it should not get any more discu |
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18 Apr 2012, 12:30 (Ref:3061463) | #18 | ||
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18 Apr 2012, 12:36 (Ref:3061467) | #19 | ||
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It's a few years since I did fire training, so I don't know if this is "officially" approved or not, but the best way I've found of carrying bottles is to hold it by the handle with one hand & support the other end by hooking the fingers of the other hand under the base. The bottle is held stably, but if you do trip or slip the hand supporting the base will tend to lose grip, thus allowing the bottlw to swing away from you.
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18 Apr 2012, 12:46 (Ref:3061472) | #20 | |||
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Only exception to this rule is if you are going to cross the track to an incident. Yes, many say "don't cross the track", I will do so if I feel it's necessary, safe and I trust my flag to find me a gap. |
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18 Apr 2012, 13:02 (Ref:3061478) | #21 | ||
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Stupid as this may sound - i find carrying a bottle backwards easiest.
It rests in you hand far better and takes hardly any time to spin it round and pull the pin on arrival. |
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19 Apr 2012, 11:07 (Ref:3061959) | #22 | ||
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19 Apr 2012, 12:02 (Ref:3061986) | #23 | ||
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Actually if you pick the extinguish up by the handle with the hose pointing backwards, the balance tilts he base AWAY from your shins and holds the top closer to the body, this gives you more control and more room for your legs and feet.
No one actually says that you should run with the bottle, it is better to walk quickly and get there than run and fall flat on your face in the dirt. If it is a long distance work with your team buddy and share the carrying distance. |
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19 Apr 2012, 12:10 (Ref:3061992) | #24 | |
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There's an acronym (one of many millions I suspect) in some fields of computer programming:
TMTOWTDI or "TimToady". I'm not going to lay out what it stands for exactly, just to point out that whatever works for you is the right thing *as long as* it isn't dangerous or downright stupid. Personally, being vertically challenged, I will carry an extinguisher generally with my right hand with the handle facing backwards. It works for me, and if it's a long way I have another one on the left that can help |
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19 Apr 2012, 14:02 (Ref:3062045) | #25 | ||
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