Rosberg another Massa?

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Kirk

He may have thought he had him, but Nico still had his wheels ahead of JPM.

The wheels may have been ahead but it was Juan Pablo's corner, the only place Rosberg was going, had he turned in (as he did) was into the side of Juan Pablo.

Are you saying that if a driver comes down the outside of another driver at the Loews corner and has his wheels ahead, it's his corner?

[Knowlesy]

Basically, Rosberg could have turned in a little less sharply and tried to get JPM at the next chicane, which I'm quite sure is a left-right.

A typical rookie error of judgement from Nico, he will learn.

[maltafan]

I think it was a racing accident that could have easily been avoided. Both drivers wanted their way, and acted very stubbornly. Anyways, being a rookie does not give you the automatic duty to let others pass by.

[Knowlesy]

Well no. But sometimes it is better not to end up in the wall.

[Kirk]

No not at all ... but JPM had ample opportunity to back off with Nico on the racing line. It was obvious to me that Nico would stay on the racing line especially since JPM was in his blind spot but JPM still forged on, despite if Nico saw him or not. Not brilliant racing by a supposed veteran.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Kirk

No not at all ... but JPM had ample opportunity to back off with Nico on the racing line. It was obvious to me that Nico would stay on the racing line especially since JPM was in his blind spot but JPM still forged on, despite if Nico saw him or not. Not brilliant racing by a supposed veteran.

He did exactly the same thing against Michael, and pulled off a brilliant overtaking manoeuvre, because Michael read what was going on, Rosberg didn't.

[Knowlesy]

Experience.

[Kirk]

Perhaps so Knowlesy. But JPM expects every driver to always yield to him and it simply will not happen. Hence his dnf's will always be a larger number than his wins.

[Knowlesy]

I'm not really sure. He can be forceful, but he doesn't crash into all and sundry. He is mostly a clean overtaker I find, which is a big part of how he has made his name after all.

Anyways, back to Rosberg.

[Alwaysfirst]

I have to admit that I think that the accident was more Montoya's fault than Nico's. Nico was ahead & on the inside for the next corner giving him the best run. Montoya just kept coming though, risking everything on lap 1. Both sre desperate to impress & maybe Nico should have backed off slightly, but Montoya shouldn't have got himself in a position where that could happen, especially not on lap 1. I still believe that Nico is the driver with the most potential of the 2 & I think that he can definatly be better than Massa in time. Remember, it was his first time ever on the circuit & he still qualified 6th. Webber has a slight advantage over him but he should have. Webber's been in F1 for 5 seasons now. If he's as good as everybody thinks then he should be miles ahead of this rookie, no matter how good he is.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Alwaysfirst

Nico was ahead & on the inside for the next corner giving him the best run.

Nico may have been on the inside for the next corner, but they had to get through turn 2 first, which JPM was on the inside

Originally Posted by Alwaysfirst

but Montoya shouldn't have got himself in a position where that could happen, especially not on lap 1.

It was lap 2

[maltafan]

Watching the incident from different cameras made me think. During the race, I though it was all Montoya's fault since the shot was from the back, but watching an aerial view of the incident, made me think twice.

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by Mr V

He put Nico in the position to either pull out or have an accident, he had an accident. Juan Pablo put Michael in the same position, Michael pulled out, went across the grass and scored good points.

So, what you are saying, it seems, is, in both instances, Juan tried to drive the other guy off the road. In the instance of Michael, it worked; in the case of Nico, it didn't.

I doubt this is what you meant, but that is how it comes across.

I will need to watch it again, but my impression was that Juan never really had him. Racing incident, though - this stuff happens.

[nycuk]

They're both a pair of hard racers - good luck to the pair of them. Ok so they tangled but at least they're willing to lay it on the line. It's what we need in F1. 25 years ago we adored Gilles and Rene for wheel-banging-no-quarter-given racing - we should applaud these two for racing with balls and grit. I look forward to seeing Nico achieve a lot in F1 and I really hope JPM can stick around for a few more seasons yet.

[mac]

Originally Posted by Kirk

Nico has made a statement, on the track

No he didn't - he ended up in the wall!

The statement I saw from him was along the lines of, "oooh, how did that happen?"

I think he got a little flustered - his explanation to Louise certainly contradicted himself.

[paraphrasing]"I thought I would try and go around the outside for the first part which would give me the inside for the next part."[/paraphrasing]

Then:

[paraphrasing]"I didn't see him."[/paraphrasing]

Nico, if you didn't see him, why were you trying to go around the outside? Strange regular racing line if you ask me.

I've got no doubt he saw Juan Pablo, but got flustered and made a poor decision.

Don't know how one can blame Montoya for that one, he was executing a perfectly legitimate passing move.

[johnh875]

The way I saw it, and from the driver interviews (although I don’t think I’ve seen the aerial footage) was that JPM wasn’t far enough up the inside for it to be “his” corner, especially given it is immediately followed by a left-hander meaning he would need to be clearly past to gain the place. He was far enough up the inside though for Nico to leave him room and take the inside for the left hander and stay in front. That is basically what Nico said in his interview (I think you are not giving him enough credit mac) – he knew JPM was going up the inside and tried to give him room although he didn’t actually see where the car was. Did JPM run a little wide/understeer? Or did he think the corner was his, meaning he could do what he liked on the exit without regard for where Nico’s car was – ie take a wide exit & push Nico off the road? My view is that it was a racing incident, they each could have given the other a bit more room – anyone remember what side-by-side racing looks like?

[Kempi]

The wheels may have been ahead but it was Juan Pablo's corner, the only place Rosberg was going, had he turned in (as he did) was into the side of Juan Pablo.

There is no such thing as "one driver's corner". Either they make it both through or they don't. Don't get me wrong, I do see some guilt with Nico. But I am not solemly blaming him. It's 50:50 to me. I'm just allergic to every pass by Montoya being hailed as the holy grail despite constantly having people being off track when he tries to pass someone.

He did exactly the same thing against Michael, and pulled off a brilliant overtaking manoeuvre, because Michael read what was going on, Rosberg didn't.

Just where is it brilliant when you have to rely on the other driver to make your passing move work? Where is it brilliant to put another driver in the grass? The racing drivers I have talked to so far (cup and historic) always emphasise how you must not try passing moves where the other driver has to think for you to make it work. The passing driver is responsible for the move working in a way that both driver can stay on the track.

JPM did that neither in the move against MSC nor against ROS. He stuck his head in and went "ah, hell, I don't care if they go off". That is something I have a very big grudge with. There were quite a few passing maneuvers on Sunday and the only times someone went off the track who wasn't trying to pass themselves, was when JPM tried to make a move. Shouldn't be that way.

[spider]

Personally I think the incident will ultimately work in Nico's favour, as it has laid down a marker saying that he won't yield, and he's no soft-touch. It's his first season and he's still learning, but if he'd let JPM through, ok he may have picked up some points, but it will have been noted by JPM and the other guys that it is possible to bully him out the way.

I hope he takes that spin on things, as being a deep-thinker the benefit will be that the next competitor to think about a lunge will know he may well turn-in.

Ok, he says he didn't see him that time, but I personally think the incident will stand him in good stead longer term. You've got to lay down markers early in your career and send a message out there to your competitors.

Nico isn't another Massa. Felipe isn't of the same intelligence, and the peaks Nico has shown this season have been hugely impressive. He's rough around the edges, but there is a huge talent in there. He has the intelligence to extract it when he's gathered a bit more data/experience.

[deejay]

Originally Posted by Kirk

I hear what you are saying Knowlesy, but on the flip side you can't let drivers take liberties against you. Nico has made a statement, on the track; and an important one with his career in front of him, and one that could buy him some space and respect in traffic. Other talented and fast drivers have failed to do the same early in their careers and it has cost them.

Good call.

[Dan Fielden]

I feel a bit silly now at the half way point of the season. After Bahrain i rung one of my mates and i said Nico Rosberg is an amazing driver, a future world champion for sure. And now im looking a bit silly. Don't get me wrong he is having a solid season and is quicker than most but he isn't exactly setting the world alight. I thort the same thing about Webber, Montoya, Alonso ( ) and Button but they have all sadly not done so (bar one )

[BootsOntheSide]

Maybe JPM should've realised that Nico wasn't as likely to fully calculate what was going on the way Michael did the previous lap? All the same, Nico has to lok at the footage and learn from it, it was a largely avoidable accident and it's wrecked what should've been a great weekend for Williams. It was inevitably going to be contact some time before it actually happened.

[Pro Racer]

i think both incidents with rosberg could of been avoided:

1 - th one with montoya was really a racing inccident you can say rosberg should of yeilded and you can say montoya should of yeilded at the end of the day one of them should have but they were both racing hard and didnt want to give an inch and they both got a raw deal.

2 - when he held webber up the team should of been on the radio saying "get out of mark's way he is on a quick one "and if they were that is a big mistake on rosbeg's part as you shuld look after your team mate as then he will look after you,and if the team wernton the radio to rosberg thats a big mistake on behalf of the team as the cost on of their drivers a spot in the next round of qualifying.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Dan Fielden

I feel a bit silly now at the half way point of the season. After Bahrain i rung one of my mates and i said Nico Rosberg is an amazing driver, a future world champion for sure. And now im looking a bit silly.

I think that is fair; you are as quick to proclaim someone the next big thing as you are to write them off.

[LampCord]

Originally Posted by The Monster

As a Montoya fan, I thought what Nico did was fair game, Nico had every right to turn in as imo he was ahead into the corner with Montoya only half alongside. It was 50-50 at best.

Agreed! I'm surprised everyone is taking Montoya's side on this. Seemed to me he was slightly behind going into the chicane and it was a silly place to try to pass. I thought from the start of the race, Montoya was racing with a bit too much aggression.

Its funny, a couple weeks ago, RB said MS would have to drive through him to pass him at Monaco and no one seemed to have a problem with it.

But Nico tries to hold his position and everyone jumps all over him.

Bit of a double standard if you ask me. Its the job of the guy passing to make sure he has room, not the guy being passed.

[Knowlesy]

Rubens said that yes. But I doubt he would have actually crashed into Michael, merely make it very difficult. And Monaco is tricky in any case.