ALMS 2010 Discussion

[Purist]

Mountainstar, it's a good thing to have stepping stones to the top levels in both LMP and GT. Also, this should allow teams to build without being so worried about getting crushed by factory/semi-works dollars in either of the primary classes. We've already seen that the intentions of LMP2 and GT2 have long since been blown out of the water by works dollars/drivers etc. It won't be so easy for that to happen in GTC or LMPC, which I think is a good thing for bringing in new blood.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Purist

Mountainstar, it's a good thing to have stepping stones to the top levels in both LMP and GT. Also, this should allow teams to build without being so worried about getting crushed by factory/semi-works dollars in either of the primary classes. We've already seen that the intentions of LMP2 and GT2 have long since been blown out of the water by works dollars/drivers etc. It won't be so easy for that to happen in GTC or LMPC, which I think is a good thing for bringing in new blood.

Well maybe, but I think keeping it simple helps with dealings with the public and keeps manufacturers from coming in and doing a walk over on a class and then blowing back out just as quick leaving the chosen class hanging. I think having too many classes dilutes the competition. I don't like it.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

If that IS a prelude to 2011, no the sky is not falling, it already fell and the king is parading around in his new clothes butt-ass naked.

There is nothing wrong with equalizing p1 and p2 permanently, but he rules are mickey mouse and no sponsor, which is NEEDED DESPERATELY will waste time on such a mickey mouse gimmick for long, if at all.

Bob, you are never going to be satisfied with anything that isn't IMSA GTP.

Kindly STFU and move on.

[scoff]

With the possible trophy comming up I had hoped for a return of the dayt24 to ALMS and getting rid of the DP's or having that as a third class (instead of LMPC).

IRL and Champ Car united, why is it so hard for IMSA and GA to create 1 mayor sportscar series as well? I guess it has to take 12 years of poor quantities just like it was in open wheel racing.

[DanShenise]

I was originally trying to point out yesterday, before True Blood and Anna Paquin got in the way, that to the casual fan they will just see a higher car count. Sportscar fans tend to skew towards the obsessive, finding great enjoyment in every technical aspect of the sport. The casual fan likes to be a part of this, just not at such a deep level. Because marketers are simply looking to sell product "X", they couldn't care less if it were tortoise drawn carts as long as people tuned into tortoise drawn carts. Unfortunately the France family has various senior level management at lots of companies believing that their tortoise drawn cart series is the future. Due AC Nielson's monopoly on ratings, neither series comes out looking good. And because marketing executives place disproportionate emphasis on ratings and not a**es in seats, they make poor decisions.

Its a rough economy, this is a stabilization move pure and simple. Odds are that by the 2011 season, LMP car counts will be up 20-30% as the economy starts to come back. Another comment was made on yesterday's broadcast about some of the GTC competitors looking seriously at jumping to GT for next season. A similar situation will most likely happen with the new LMPC teams. It allows them to come up with a minimal budget, under $1mil per season to operate + start-up. Run for a season or two, figure out how to do it well, get sponsors, and then jump to LMP.

[prototype]

This could be quite a gamble. If only 3 or 4 cars enters the LMPC class it will be a farce. Ont he otherhand I wonder if it could pick off any DP's currently racing in GA. ALMS events would be more attractive to the sponsors, but they wouldn't be competing for overall wins.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by prototype

ALMS events would be more attractive to the sponsors

While this is probably still true, GA has made some headway this year as far as exposure goes. Ratings on Speed have been pretty good at times with a .48 for the 4th of July Daytona Race and a .29 for the subsequent event at Barber. That's more than the IRL gets on Versus...

Also crowds are suppossed to be a good deal up compared to the last few years, and as you said, as long as you run in DP you go for the overall win and are likely a lot longer on screen than in LMPC.

Frankly, I would be pretty surprised to see any of the DP-regulars switch to those new cars. The front runners want to be front runners and a number of them have developement deals with either chassis suppliers or another year on their contract with Ford as it is the case for AIM and Michael Shank. Others like Beyer Racing or Supercarlife have just invested in new equipment.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a few DP-teams (namely Penske and perhaps also Ganassi) not returning next year, but I would be shocked to see any of those turn up in LMPC.

Back when GA had 30 DPs on the grid there were a lot of teams that were just experimenting with the class and seeing if it was for them or if they could be competitive, and if ALMS had introduced that class back then, they'd probably won a few of those over, but not now.

[italiastraps]

This may be splitting hairs...but did they actually say all four classes will be on track at the same time? I wonder if they have left open the option of a main event (Newly Combined P cars and GTs) and then a challenge event. Might be an idea if the newly combined P class attracts enough interest that you don't need the other classes to fill up the grid. It would be nice if the Penske Spyders came back...

[Mal]

It wouldnt surprise me if this new class systems is based on the assumption that Audi and Acura will not be in ALMS full time and are more likely to be involved in the intercontinental cup if it is launched. I suspect it will be and that this will include Sebring and PLM which is why those two events have been left as full ACO rules.

Maybe Acura will rebrand the cars as Hondas and run the intercontinental cup?? Pure speculation but a thought nonetheless - they have made no secret in that past that they intent to go to Le Mans at some stage.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by italiastraps

This may be splitting hairs...but did they actually say all four classes will be on track at the same time? I wonder if they have left open the option of a main event (Newly Combined P cars and GTs) and then a challenge event. Might be an idea if the newly combined P class attracts enough interest that you don't need the other classes to fill up the grid. It would be nice if the Penske Spyders came back...

Uhh, no!

And yes, a few more Spyders on the grid would be great.
But I suspect they would not be under the Penske banner, but I could be wrong.



L.P.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Mal

It wouldnt surprise me if this new class systems is based on the assumption that Audi and Acura will not be in ALMS full time and are more likely to be involved in the intercontinental cup if it is launched. I suspect it will be and that this will include Sebring and PLM which is why those two events have been left as full ACO rules.

Certainly, a logical seeming possibility!




L.P.

[AndrewF31]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

While this is probably still true, GA has made some headway this year as far as exposure goes. Ratings on Speed have been pretty good at times with a .48 for the 4th of July Daytona Race and a .29 for the subsequent event at Barber. That's more than the IRL gets on Versus...

GA only got .48 at Daytona? I heard during Midweek Motorsport that some of the ALMS races, taped, got 0.4 ratings.
This is off the top of my head so I could be wrong.

Based on that, a good bet for ALMS stealing spec teams could be made.

Couldn't a single class call back someone named Roger Penske? He partly left ALMS because of the regulation changes.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by AndrewF31

GA only got .48 at Daytona? I heard during Midweek Motorsport that some of the ALMS races, taped, got 0.4 ratings.
This is off the top of my head so I could be wrong.

Based on that, a good bet for ALMS stealing spec teams could be made.

We are talking about the 4th of July race at Daytona here, not the 24hours, and that race was on Speed TV, i.e. a cable station with a much smaller range than NBC, where the recent tape delayed ALMS Mid Ohio race got a .4, which is actually less.
There's suppossedly a difference between cable and network ratings, though, so it's hard to compare those two. But as a point of reference: The NASCAR truck series gets around 1.0 on Speed TV.

The opening portions of the 24hour race were on FOX and got a .9-rating, which is more than any ALMS network broadcast got the last few years.

[Félix]

Forget about FLM being "close" to 2011 LMP2. These will have to run small road car engines, a ton of ballast to make the 900 kg minimum and finally to comply with aero rules that will want to prevent "excessive" sculpting of the body like a raised nose. Hopefully this class can keep us from seeing new-rule P2s here.

[JAG]

Sportscar racing is better with large grids, both FLMC and GTC could potentially attract another 15-20 cars.

Once in the ALMS fold they are more likely to step upto LMP1/2 and GT2, that should be your only concern.

[gttouring]

what are the LMC rules?
what's wrong with a CAN-Am class in ALMS? these can be built by privateers and be glorious.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Félix

Forget about FLM being "close" to 2011 LMP2. These will have to run small road car engines, a ton of ballast to make the 900 kg minimum and finally to comply with aero rules that will want to prevent "excessive" sculpting of the body like a raised nose. Hopefully this class can keep us from seeing new-rule P2s here.

How exactly are GT2 engines small road car engines? The ACO's press release stated about 420 hp for P2 in 2011. The FLM car is supposed to have 430 hp. 900 kg weight limit - same as FLM. And there was no word about radical aero changes.

[TWK]

[QUOTE=prototype;2523041]This could be quite a gamble. If only 3 or 4 cars enters the LMPC class it will be a farce. QUOTE] Why a farce? 3 or 4 GT Challenge, LMP2 and LMP1 cars have been not only "not a farce," but routine.

[MJ_N_09]

Is there any word on who the Cup challange team moving up to GT2 is?

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by MJ_N_09

Is there any word on who the Cup challange team moving up to GT2 is?

Funny, Atherton said they had announced yet no one knows who it is? Could he be saying that to calm down us die hard fans who do not understand the need for spec classes? Why do these classes have to be part of the "big show" (they could be a support race), as others have stated - what is so wrong with 1 proto class and 1 GT class?

[AndrewF31]

As mentioned by others, sometimes spec series can help bring in new teams that could one day move up or teams who use to race at the top but don't have enough funding yet still wanna try to stay in the race with a smaller budget. I know that at least Snow and Orbit used to race GT2s. Orbit even finished 2nd in class at the 24 hour Le Mans a few years back.

[Félix]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

How exactly are GT2 engines small road car engines? The ACO's press release stated about 420 hp for P2 in 2011. The FLM car is supposed to have 430 hp. 900 kg weight limit - same as FLM. And there was no word about radical aero changes.

I was surprised to find out that the FLM car runs at 900 kg; it still beats non-serious LMP2 cars under 2009 regs. The P2 regs will call for road car-based engines or GT2 homologated engines... but do you think they'll let high capacity GT2 engines in when P1 can only get 520 hp from very small units? Even Corvette will have to step down to a 5.5 liter - closer to production - unit and there's no insurance it'll be P2-legal.

And look it up, radical aero changes and removal of similarities with single seaters have been part of the ACO fantasies for years. When they actually publish real and complete regulations, I expect those to be full of bodywork-related restrictions and tricky dimensional requirements.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Félix

I was surprised to find out that the FLM car runs at 900 kg; it still beats non-serious LMP2 cars under 2009 regs. The P2 regs will call for road car-based engines or GT2 homologated engines... but do you think they'll let high capacity GT2 engines in when P1 can only get 520 hp from very small units? Even Corvette will have to step down to a 5.5 liter - closer to production - unit and there's no insurance it'll be P2-legal.

And look it up, radical aero changes and removal of similarities with single seaters have been part of the ACO fantasies for years. When they actually publish real and complete regulations, I expect those to be full of bodywork-related restrictions and tricky dimensional requirements.

Huh, just what do you mean by "closer to production"? Corvette has 7.0L n/a, 6.2L s/c and a 6.2L n/a as "production" engines!!



As for the rest of the supposition, well... we shall see.




L.P.

[DanShenise]

Regarding LMPC costs. Just saw this on the website for the channel that used to show racing but now shows wrecker shows:

"The prototype, powered by a Chevy LS3 platform V8 producing 430 hp, has roots back to Courage LC75 chassis, which served as the foundation for Acura’s initial LMP2 prototype in 2007. In terms of speed, Atherton says the cars will be slower than the Prototype class, yet faster than GTs.

“It is an absolute, pure LMP platform and real race car,” Atherton said. “All of the components that can make a prototype car very expensive have been value engineered in this case to make it an affordable entry level into Le Mans Prototype racing.”

With a race-ready package for $380,000, and a projected full-season budget of $1 million, Atherton hopes the program’s relatively low price tag will attract teams graduating from the lower ranks such as IMSA Lites, or even established organizations from other series like Grand-Am." (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...structure//P2/)

Well this is definately a horse of a different color. If they can get the package together for ~$400K, and I think it should attract a ton of people who were on the fence about getting into racing. I guess it all depends on start-up costs for the rest of the team. However if someone is already running a GTC team, stepping up to LMPC starts to make sense. Even though its another "spec" level, it'll no doubt get more visibility because its a prototype class.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by DanShenise

Well this is definately a horse of a different color. If they can get the package together for ~$400K, and I think it should attract a ton of people who were on the fence about getting into racing. I guess it all depends on start-up costs for the rest of the team. However if someone is already running a GTC team, stepping up to LMPC starts to make sense. Even though its another "spec" level, it'll no doubt get more visibility because its a prototype class.

People who are just getting into racing have no place in the ALMS until they have experience, especially in a "prototype" IMO. Unless you are speaking of team ownership then absolutely as long as they have drivers that aren't a hazard to the rest of the field.