ALMS 2010 Discussion

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

People who are just getting into racing have no place in the ALMS until they have experience, especially in a "prototype" IMO. Unless you are speaking of team ownership then absolutely as long as they have drivers that aren't a hazard to the rest of the field.

Hmm and just where do the IMSA lites drivers go? Or any of the other so called ladder series of IMSA? Why not the LMPC?




L.P.

[Audi Racer]

This is the stupidest idea ever. I strongly am no fan of the new rules there are so many problems and flaws. How will acura go on with the p2 acura racing the p1 acura. why would they fill LMPs with young aspiring drivers who don't really know how to drive yet and put them in the way of the Factory efforts of porsche acura audi peugeot. How would it look if some virtual unknown crashed into and took Allan McNish and the Number One Audi out of the lead of the 12 hours of sebring with 15 minutes to go. Or even at the start. They have unleashed a reign of chaos that will dilute the purebreed machinery of the ALMS. imagine the cheap courage chassis with an incompetent driver crashing into and writing off a peugeot 908 or Audi R15 chassis. So how will this work if a P2 team wants to run at Lemans. The ACO rules are not changing. That a big change. I know that the Dyson lolas want to head to Lemans. So all season they will run at a completely pace and then just change the car completely for LeMans and slow it down

[Audi Racer]

This will be utter chaos. I can't wait to wake up from this nightmare. 3 years ago i was watching WRC,ALMS, Grand-AM, F1. Then speedtv dropped WRC. So i was watching F1,ALMS, and Grand-am. then F1 went bad so i occasionally watched F1 but it is not a priority. If i forget to DVR i won't matter. Know ALMS is going bad.
How in the world do you equalise a P2 with P1. It's impossible.

[Audi Racer]

Hw do the 2011 ACO rules come into play in 2011. the LMP2's are supposed to have GT2 engines. The LMP2's are supposed to be even slower than the LMP1's in 2011. They should have 400hp while the P1's have 500hp. If a manufacturer wanted to make a P2 for 2011 and run at LeMans he would not want to run the ALMS. He would want to build his car to take advantage of one set of rules which would be the ACO spec.

[MJ_N_09]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Funny, Atherton said they had announced yet no one knows who it is? Could he be saying that to calm down us die hard fans who do not understand the need for spec classes? Why do these classes have to be part of the "big show" (they could be a support race), as others have stated - what is so wrong with 1 proto class and 1 GT class?

They really seem to want 4 classes no matter what, while on the contrary, no one else wants it. Do they actually think that this will bring in fans?

[MJ_N_09]

Audi Racer, was it that hard to just combine your three posts into one? No offense, but it looks like you're spamming.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

This is the stupidest idea ever. I strongly am no fan of the new rules there are so many problems and flaws. How will acura go on with the p2 acura racing the p1 acura. why would they fill LMPs with young aspiring drivers who don't really know how to drive yet and put them in the way of the Factory efforts of porsche acura audi peugeot. How would it look if some virtual unknown crashed into and took Allan McNish and the Number One Audi out of the lead of the 12 hours of sebring with 15 minutes to go. Or even at the start. They have unleashed a reign of chaos that will dilute the purebreed machinery of the ALMS. imagine the cheap courage chassis with an incompetent driver crashing into and writing off a peugeot 908 or Audi R15 chassis. So how will this work if a P2 team wants to run at Lemans. The ACO rules are not changing. That a big change. I know that the Dyson lolas want to head to Lemans. So all season they will run at a completely pace and then just change the car completely for LeMans and slow it down

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

This will be utter chaos. I can't wait to wake up from this nightmare. 3 years ago i was watching WRC,ALMS, Grand-AM, F1. Then speedtv dropped WRC. So i was watching F1,ALMS, and Grand-am. then F1 went bad so i occasionally watched F1 but it is not a priority. If i forget to DVR i won't matter. Know ALMS is going bad.
How in the world do you equalise a P2 with P1. It's impossible.

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

Hw do the 2011 ACO rules come into play in 2011. the LMP2's are supposed to have GT2 engines. The LMP2's are supposed to be even slower than the LMP1's in 2011. They should have 400hp while the P1's have 500hp. If a manufacturer wanted to make a P2 for 2011 and run at LeMans he would not want to run the ALMS. He would want to build his car to take advantage of one set of rules which would be the ACO spec.

#1) Firstly, there will be no "Acura" P-2 next year as Lowes Fernandez has already been told that the engines will no longer be supplied as a sponsorship and if they wish to continue with them they will have to lease them.
I suspect that it will require a set minimum level of experience to drive these (LMPC) cars.
Hmm in 2011 the 2010 P-2 cars will not be eligible for P-2 but become defacto P-1s.

#2) P-1 and P-2 were equalized in 08 and everybody thought it the cats meow! Impossible? Already been done!

#3) Now this one is complete gibberish to me! I will take a stab at it however. It seems that these cars will be very close to the 2011 P-2s and will either be adjusted to keep a differentiation or integrated into P-2. But that is a ways down the road at this point and has a myriad of possible scenarios that could determine what will actually be done, then.




L.P.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by MJ_N_09

They really seem to want 4 classes no matter what, while on the contrary, no one else wants it. Do they actually think that this will bring in fans?

Hmm, then you did not read the release, hear any of the interviews or is it thought that Scott Atherton is a complete liar? As he stated that this was discussed with the people that it would actually make a difference to, such as teams, mfgs, suppliers etc..





L.P.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by johntt

Bob, you are never going to be satisfied with anything that isn't IMSA GTP.

Kindly STFU and move on.

Unlike some when the chocolate fudge is gone, I do not eat butt-fudge and go ummmm-good; other than that what is your point?

I have been reading these pie-in-the-sky rhetorically obtuse rationalizations for years, and it always goes:
"Wait till next year it will be GREAT!"
"OK this year also sucked but wait till NEXT year, it will be GREAT!"
"So ok, this year sucked as much as the last two, but wait till NEXT YEAR, it WILL be GREAT!"
Ok so it still sucks but wait till...."

[The Badger]

In reality life can be like that . So its only normal that a series suffers with the times too .

I reckon over the years the ALMS have done a fairly decent job , as have the LMS .

Both series have had better days , but they also have had worse . Considering that the most appreciated form of motorsport in the USA is leaning more towards NASCAR and IRL ..... its hardly surprising that the ALMS take a large knock .

But ..... wait for next year . It will be better ..... lol

[Gingers4Justice]

Don't know if this has been mentioned but won't the FLM cars be pretty close in terms of pace to LMP?

[prototype]

Originally Posted by TWK

Why a farce? 3 or 4 GT Challenge, LMP2 and LMP1 cars have been not only "not a farce," but routine.

The last thing the ALMS needs is 5 classes with 3 cars in each class. If LMPC can maintain a healthy gridsize, I guess I will be fine with it.

My only concern is that the shorter ALMS races will have 4 cars in LMP, 3 cars in LMPC, a healthy GT2 that isn't covered enough, and GTC cars that constantly burying it in the gravel trap to give another full course yellow and splitting the GT2 field.

[Jonerz]

LMPC won't draw a single P1 or P2 team IMO. So we'll probably have 8+ LMP cars, 4+ LMPC cars, 12+ GT cars, and 6+ GTC cars. So in the worst cases there will be 30 ALMS cars on a grid and tight racing in each class.

Chris

[italiastraps]

I think a lot of us here are in favor of a ladder system where up and coming teams with smaller budgets move up through the ranks and eventually race with the big boys. But, I’m not so sure it’s a good idea to have this going on concurrent with an ALMS race. It’s a better idea as a support series. To me, the compelling part of the ALMS is its driving talent and the cutting edge nature of the machines. There is way too much of a gap between, for example, David Brabham in the front in an Acura and an unknown driver in the back in a Challenge Porsche.

I’d trade a few more quality (non spec) prototype runners for a whole fleet of challenge machines. When you have diverse, quality entries, (especially factory entries) the real race fans will come out of the woodwork and make the effort to get to the track to watch. Anyone remember when FIA GT came to the California in the late 1990s? and that wasn't even a US series. The fans are out there.
People won’t pay to watch (pseudo) spec-racing. I think the ALMS is running the risk alienating at least some of their long-time fans with this move

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by italiastraps

I think a lot of us here are in favor of a ladder system where up and coming teams with smaller budgets move up through the ranks and eventually race with the big boys. But, I’m not so sure it’s a good idea to have this going on concurrent with an ALMS race. It’s a better idea as a support series. To me, the compelling part of the ALMS is its driving talent and the cutting edge nature of the machines. There is way too much of a gap between, for example, David Brabham in the front in an Acura and an unknown driver in the back in a Challenge Porsche.

I’d trade a few more quality (non spec) prototype runners for a whole fleet of challenge machines. When you have diverse, quality entries, (especially factory entries) the real race fans will come out of the woodwork and make the effort to get to the track to watch. Anyone remember when FIA GT came to the California in the late 1990s? and that wasn't even a US series. The fans are out there.
People won’t pay to watch (pseudo) spec-racing. I think the ALMS is running the risk alienating at least some of their long-time fans with this move

There is already a rung below LMPC, with several series sitting on it. So someone like say Graham Rahal (and others of the like on that rung), who went the open wheel route from that rung instead, are not good enough to be in the series as rookies? Psshah! Give me a break already!!

If they are long term fans, they will not be going away, period!





L.P.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by prototype

The last thing the ALMS needs is 5 classes with 3 cars in each class. If LMPC can maintain a healthy gridsize, I guess I will be fine with it.

My only concern is that the shorter ALMS races will have 4 cars in LMP, 3 cars in LMPC, a healthy GT2 that isn't covered enough, and GTC cars that constantly burying it in the gravel trap to give another full course yellow and splitting the GT2 field.

Atherton said in an interview that he would consider it a success if 4 LMPC cars lined up for Sebring next March. Also said 6 teams have expressed interest in testing the car post Petite.

[Jonerz]

Oh dear sweet baby Jesus. LMPC and GTC aren't replacing the proper LMPs and GT(2) cars. They are an addition to the show. The American Le Mans Series is not sacrificing prototype entries with the LMPC or GTC categories. The masses of race fans who support the ALMS because of the technology and factory teams will not be alienated by the ADDITION of cars to the grid. And for crying out loud, the spec nature of these classes is only for 2010 as far as we know.

Chris

[The Real DMN]

To me this is a great idea. It returns the lower class in both Prototypes and GT's to what it should be. Gentleman driver and teams on limited budgets racing alongside the big boys, but in their own little race. Factory teams and works entries don't belong in GT2 and LMP2, but thats what the ALMS has given us. Although its been great, its also probably driven teams away (or rather stopped them from coming).

Jonerz is spot on. A semi-spec series for 2010 to get teams into the grove, then expand in 2011. All the while the big boys carry on as normal in LMP and GT2.

Next season looks a lot better than this one did 12 months ago.....

[italiastraps]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

There is already a rung below LMPC, with several series sitting on it. So someone like say Graham Rahal (and others of the like on that rung), who went the open wheel route from that rung instead, are not good enough to be in the series as rookies? Psshah! Give me a break already!!

If they are long term fans, they will not be going away, period!





L.P.

Its honestly really great to hear everyone's varied opinion! Among my group of friends (5 who are all big racing fans) all of them have given up on watching the ALMS (except for me). We've all followed it and gone to every Laguna Seca and Sears Point round from the beginning... including 3 trips cross-country to Sebring. For a couple of them the lack of P cars and the challenge class this year were a tipping point to stop watching. Not to say everyone is like this...but some fans will surely see the new classes as filler

[arakis]

yes but, the point is no one actualy watched gt2, or ngt class before ferrari came in and both ferrari and porsche went into full factory mode over it, thats what made it intersting, and exciting. a lot more people watch the gt2 then gt3 or cup challange races becouse in gt2 u get full factory supportd cars. and thus an exciting war!

same is with lmp2, before porsche and acura came.

the point is when they put the new classes no one will be interested in them and so the sponorships will be low, and thus there wont be any more entrants.

[R4z3rw33n]

My greatest fear is that the LMPC/GTC cars will hang around for longer than necessary. If, after 2010, the field is replenished with new LMP/GT entries, will LMPC and GTC stay?

I'd prefer to see LMPC/GTC in a support race format, separate to the main game. That way inexperienced LMPC/GTC drivers are driving together, not against seasoned pro's/much more expensive machinery.

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by MJ_N_09

Audi Racer, was it that hard to just combine your three posts into one? No offense, but it looks like you're spamming.

whatev

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

#1) Firstly, there will be no "Acura" P-2 next year as Lowes Fernandez has already been told that the engines will no longer be supplied as a sponsorship and if they wish to continue with them they will have to lease them.
I suspect that it will require a set minimum level of experience to drive these (LMPC) cars.
Hmm in 2011 the 2010 P-2 cars will not be eligible for P-2 but become defacto P-1s.

#2) P-1 and P-2 were equalized in 08 and everybody thought it the cats meow! Impossible? Already been done!

#3) Now this one is complete gibberish to me! I will take a stab at it however. It seems that these cars will be very close to the 2011 P-2s and will either be adjusted to keep a differentiation or integrated into P-2. But that is a ways down the road at this point and has a myriad of possible scenarios that could determine what will actually be done, then.




L.P.

We both know P1 and P2 were not on equal performance in 08. Even with how seemingly close they were. the audi is not the model for P1 handling ability

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by MJ_N_09

Audi Racer, was it that hard to just combine your three posts into one? No offense, but it looks like you're spamming.

And who are you

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

#1) Firstly, there will be no "Acura" P-2 next year as Lowes Fernandez has already been told that the engines will no longer be supplied as a sponsorship and if they wish to continue with them they will have to lease them.
I suspect that it will require a set minimum level of experience to drive these (LMPC) cars.
Hmm in 2011 the 2010 P-2 cars will not be eligible for P-2 but become defacto P-1s.

#2) P-1 and P-2 were equalized in 08 and everybody thought it the cats meow! Impossible? Already been done!

#3) Now this one is complete gibberish to me! I will take a stab at it however. It seems that these cars will be very close to the 2011 P-2s and will either be adjusted to keep a differentiation or integrated into P-2. But that is a ways down the road at this point and has a myriad of possible scenarios that could determine what will actually be done, then.




L.P.

So i have a question.
I am head of mercedes benz motorsport and i want to build an LMP prototype for 2011 to race in the ALMS obviously to promote mercedes benz NorthAmerica. Do i build a P2 which would be alot cheaper and have it performance adjusted to race for overall wins or do i build a P1 which would make no sense at all because it would cost so much more and the P2 car would be able to race me equally anyway. What do i do.