History of a Lola T492 Sports 2000 chassis?

[911thillclimber]

Thanks Serge:

That one is a new product to me and my simple link is similar via helicopter UJ's.
When i got the box originally, it had a complex set of slider/pivot links to effect the fore/aft and the side-to-side actions for the H pattern.

I dug it out the loft yesterday for a study and I see no reason to re-fit it!

The Porsche Boxster has cable shift to the box, but a totally different design to the 70's 915 here.

I will detail my current unit and the complex system in a few days for discussion which i welcome.
Mrs Hillclimber's birthday tomorrow so 100% attention on that.

Off to read the Demon Tweeks Oils catalogue in bed, such dedication to this flippin' car...

Maybe I'll dream up the solution later.

[brookesy]

Graham,
I am awaiting delivery of a cable shift system as posted by Serge.
As you know my Nike has the 914 box as opposed to your 915, but I have good reports on these systems and they certainly look well put together.
It's got to be an improvement over a system with uj's.

[911thillclimber]

Then I'll wait and see how you get on!

I will have a struggle with space if I keep the right hand gear lever, but cables would allow a central lever position, and that might be a good move..
Let us know how you get on please.

[Andy Clegg]

I know someone who hill climbed a Ferrari Dino. From memory, he put a spacer in the gate so that he'd only select first, second and third gears.

[911thillclimber]

A month gone past without a post up-date and for good reason.

Mrs Hillclimber's birthday treats, getting the 911 patched-up and clean ready to hibernate for 6 months (though hoping to have a blatt tomorrow now the clutch is right).
Further, I am on the very brink of a huge decision; to retire early.
I thought this would be an easy decision, but not so, but I could be a slightly elderly gentleman of leisure by Xmas.
Quite a pressie to myself, but Mrs H is not looking forward to me being at home 24/7, so i will simply have to spend more time in the garage. ( )

To the pesky gear change saga, and some tinkering has revealed a few issues and resolutions, strange but true.

I have discivered why the change was so flippin' awkward, all down to me not engineering the path and geometry of the shift linkage correctly.

To get from the chassis to the gearbox the shift rod had to pass under the one huge silencer, and this led to the connection to the g'box to be at a 45 deg angle. When the box went across neutral in a 'horizontal' manner the gear knob did not...
Imagine the gate at the lever to be a conventional H, well the knob moved not horizontally but at an angle that on the change from 2nd to 3rd the knob actually moved across towards 4th before going forward to the 3rd gear slot so as i pushed across from 2nd to 3rd the knob travelled towards 4th against my movement.

Anyway, now you have worked that all out to the solution.

The box and engine was previously in a Nomad Sports Racer with right hand seat and change. The previous driver had gear change problems (!) and 3 Porsche types devised a control gate to over come this.

Fortunately, the device came to me and i kept it (rare foresight for me) and is now on the box and pictured below.

I will use my sprung lock-out plunger to prevent 5th and reverse being selected unless i apply a hard force and the job is done bar full welding and paint etc.

The knob now follows a very true H pattern nice and smoothly.

[gt917]

Although I,ve said it before, we should all be very grateful to you for your superbly informative posts.

This latest one though, for me, is really helpful /hopeful, because it shows a gear change mechanism that may also be answer for my years of woe with my 915 gearbox in the similar configuration to yours. If it really works well, you have an instant customer in me.

Please keep all of us up to date with your sterling work.

Thank you.

[911thillclimber]

I'll try Graham!

I have another thread running on this topic on a hillclimb thread with a few contributors helping me.
I decided to lash-up one of the sugestions.
This simple appraoch is based on the ELVA 200 formula car design that used a VW box.
Here the linkage is fixed to the gearbox shaft very close and direct as possible to the box.

It works, but the width of the neutral slot in the H is very tight, about 10mm at the lever knob.
Thus it will be very easy to select 1st going from 2nd to 3rd...

This equals a buzzzzzed engine and a 4K bill.

I think i have a final solution to this problem:

A full Porsche Boxster drive train with an auto/tiptronic box!

[andy97]

Originally Posted by 911thillclimber

A full Porsche Boxster drive train with an auto/tiptronic box!

I can't tell whether you are joking or not! If you are not, a) the change will be a bit slow I reckon and, b) use paddles and not buttons, the buttons are too fiddly and not intuitive when driving quickly.

[911thillclimber]

Tounge in cheek really but what a game this is.

I need to run the car to see what these designs are actually like to the feel.
The simple connection is like the one i started with and the silencer will not fit on so a bit of fiddling needed first. See what sunday brings.

[gt917]

Originally Posted by 911thillclimber

I'll try Graham!

I have another thread running on this topic on a hillclimb thread with a few contributors helping me.
I decided to lash-up one of the sugestions.
This simple appraoch is based on the ELVA 200 formula car design that used a VW box.
Here the linkage is fixed to the gearbox shaft very close and direct as possible to the box.

It works, but the width of the neutral slot in the H is very tight, about 10mm at the lever knob.
Thus it will be very easy to select 1st going from 2nd to 3rd...

This equals a buzzzzzed engine and a 4K bill.

I think i have a final solution to this problem:

A full Porsche Boxster drive train with an auto/tiptronic box!

That design is just like I,m trying at present and has given me mega hassle and many very close to engine buzzes. It is, as you say, a very, very small margin of play.
The former design you had is by far and away the best I,ve seen, albeit heavier and bulkier.

Now, about that auto box idea of yours .......................................

[gt917]

Forgot to say this before and may help your endevours.

Your former mechanism is push/pulling IN LINE with the shaft. Perfect.

The last one, like my one, is still push/pulling but at an angle and putting side strain on the bushing and oil seal. I have got to replace both on my box now as it has caused noticeable side play and oil seepage from the seal.

[911thillclimber]

Yes, and mine is doing the same!
This is another reason I like the 'guided' design over the 'In-line' type.

[911thillclimber]

After a day at the Classic Car Show and seeing several Hewland and other mid engined cars there i think i will prepare and fit the complicated mechanism to the box for next year.

I did see one racer with a reverse gate lever as there was a large hand drawn label to the side of the lever with 3/4 in the place of 1/2 on the left.

I know there is little time to look at the rev counter let along look down to a lable in a 32 sec dash up a hill but as i have the bits i might build the mechanism up and try it one day.

Been distracted by buying an old lathe as soon when i take early retirement i will lose access to the workshop, about the only draw-back to leaving work!

Saw and met Graham and his 917 which was at the show.
Stunning car and a nice character. Good to meet 10/Tenthers!

[gt917]

I tell you all ..... Graham, the 911 hillclimber, is an absolute top bloke. Turns up at the Classic Car Show with some drawings of this gearchange mechanism for me, and refuses to take a penny for them.

I do owe him though, as we all do, for such informative, open and incredibly friendly posts.

Thankyou so much Graham.

[911thillclimber]

Been a while since an update as it has been a bit busy in the 911hillclimber household!

First irritation is I bought a new pc with Windows 8.1 installed.

NEVER BUY A COMPUTOR WITH 8.1 installed.

NEVER!

It is the most incompetent system devised by a global monopolistic player. how a company such as Microsoft could 'design' such a heap of rubbish after XP I'll never know. Bring back Bill Gates.

I really could go on about this, but will try not to.

This has somewhat hampered any pictures but I seem to have imported some off my garage camera, but can't remember just how that has happened..

The 'new' shifter mechanism is on the car after a bit of paint etc and I hope this will be an improvement.
Time will tell.
Hope I've found a big airfield to test on for early next year so I can set out a course and hammer into it so to find the limits of the car and me without hitting anything.
Time will tell!

Secondly, the front suspension steering plates were only >just< ok to get 1.2 deg neg camber into the front geo so Sean suggested I remake them with a lot more ability to get uop to about 3 deg in case I go to radials but also to get comfortably 1.5 deg neg for the current crossplies.

Correct alloy plate was found (given to me!) and the 4 plates are cut and drilled as a 4 some to get everything equal.
The bolt that passes through the upright top ball joint is 6mm further in so the wishbones will be in a different location allowing better adjustment of the geo.
Hope to fit these soon and re-set the front again.

I've decided to re-wire the car as it has become a mess and I want to add a fuel pump cut out in case of a thump, something (else) that has always bothered me.
Brake pads are next with the horrid Green Stuff pads going front and back for fresh DS2500

Apart from a mega clean, some paint and an oil change to engine and box the car will be ready.

I'm going to run with a Hans device for 2015, new overalls, shoes and a fresh helmet, so the Team will look good even if the performance is lacking.

Finally, I've taken early retirement from Xmas so will have a lot of time to do the above.
Very difficult decision, but just fed-up of work and it's 'bother'.

How long a poor pensioner can run a car like this?

Time will tell!

[Tim Barry]

Good to see you are still working on it, Graham! Merry Christmas and try not to spend it all in the workshop!

[911thillclimber]

Been taking it easy as I've rattled my right wrist with the vibs from my angle grinder, it all needs resting up.

Getting better now for the Xmas-in-the-Garage period....

However, this has not stopped a little sketch off me to wish you all a Happy Xmas and a great, healthy and fast New Year full of sweet gear-changes!

[Andy Clegg]

Happy Christmas and a Prosperous New Year everybody.

[911thillclimber]

Well, all that commercialism is over now!
If we all gave to the world's call for charity money instead of the Xmas circus there would be nobody ill, starving, or without water and sanitation in the world!

Been in the cold garage today and finished the front alignment off.

Set the front to 1.5 deg negative with ease and the top wishbone cross braces are miles away from the coil springs. Result.

Set the toe to 10 mins in with my £60 ebay laser gadget. Result.

Looked at the loom to the fuel pump supply...

I re-wired it to the Land Rover inertia cut out switch so in a bump the fuel feed will be stopped electrically. Result not to be tested...

Found a supply for the new brake pads, DS 2500 as recommended by McClurg motorsport's Sean last year, so will order tomorrow. That will remove the vague Green Stuff pads I've had in the car from the start.

Then to the clutch, all part of the quest for trouble-free gear changes.

The 911 clutch is a weird pull type affair and needs a good 1" to disengage it where the cable (on the road car) locates. The clutch release arm itself is about 120mm long.

In the search for efficiency (lighter pedal with 1"+ movement) I've got the arm more at 90 degrees to the slave cylinder's rod, it was more 80 deg before. I'm hoping this will show in its driveability, but tricky to know until I'm strapped in.

I had to extend the push rod 40mm to do this, and now done I was too cold to carry on!
Will measure the movement tomorrow when 8 deg is promised by the Met office.

Need to start and heat the engine and try the gear change with it all running and drop the oils. Have been advised by Opie oils on a slick gearbox oil and will stick to Shell Helix, all fluids are about 40 miles old!

Finally, the one front rim leaks air like mad, so tyre off and a new O ring etc so it holds air like the others do so I don't have to pump the blessed thing up twice a day.

This will conclude the preparation of the car for this years season which kicks-off in early April apart from a deep clean to every surface in late March.

Being now officially retired (early I hasten to add) I have a new mini-project to get stuck into.
Bought 15 years ago just for this very moment, re-living my youth.

[Neil Duke]

Dont bother with the O rings,I have rebuilt 16 rims for the Metro,using RTV,not one leak.

[911thillclimber]

I've read that too late!

Split the wheel today after removing the tyre. The one O ring was badly damaged and air escaped despite RTV having been applied a year ago when I assembled them.

Because I had an O ring kit, I made two new ones, glued them to the ring disc and bolted it all up.
Added RTV (fresh stuff) to act as a primary seal and it is hardening right now.

I hope this will fix it. That tyre going flat was really irritating, 10 psi in 3 hours yet the smallest of bubbles.

Checked the clutch movement and all seems good.
Ordered the DS2500 pads and saved £50 almost compared to a famous supplier we all use.

Thus, once the pads are here and in I will do the run-up to check the gears shift and drain the hot oils and replenish.

I'll bleed the brakes and clutch so as to flush the old out and then throw the covers over it until March when it will get a day or so of cleaning.

time then to book some testing at the airfield. I just have to find more speed.

[gt917]

2015 is here, and once again you are finding time to keep us informed and entertained with your efforts.

Thankyou.

[Clive Brown]

The $64,000 question! Are you going to test back-to-back the small wheels versus the big wheels?

I noticed that despite the manifold other improvements you made to the car over the 2013-14 close season, the car didn't actually seem to get much, or even any, quicker during the 2014 hillclimb season. My personal view, for what it's worth, is that the car is now undertyred for the horsepower and torque of the engine.

One way to find out....

[911thillclimber]

Well!
How nice to see you on here again Clive, I thought you had disappeared helping out another 'lost race car soul'!
As ever you ask a straight and slightly awkward question of me...

What you say has definitely crossed my mind all through last year.

The width reduction was quite dramatic, to remind ourselves; 10" rear (was 14") and 7.5" front (was 10").
The slicks for the new widths were new and the same A15 hillclimb 'norm' compound as used on the wider wheels.

Thus the only change was contact area, chassis geo stayed the same.
I did get more steering lock (which has proved to be a god-send) for the tight paddock conditions on hillclimb venues.

The car has not gone faster in any dramatic way.
Times are much the same, maybe 0.5 sec better and the starts re slightly better in general, once or twice much better (by 0.2 sec).

The wheels sit under the standard body (might look nicer) and it goes on the trailer easier...

But, nothing startlingly better, which was not my expectation, so really, was a waste of time, but made the car nicer to deal with.

The car did not skid, did not 'drift', did not oversteer/understeer so no different to the 'big-wheel' era.

I have put this down to lack of confidence from me; simply not reaching deeply enough into the capabilities of the car.

Plan is to rent Throckmorton airfield to test. It has huge areas that are smooth and the pan is to drive a corner 9imaginary) until the car lets go so I can see where the limit is and learn to cope with it without the constant fear of hitting something. for such testing the wide wheels do not need arch extensions so trying them is quite simple!

Today, I think my threshold or nerve is limiting the speed I can run at. If the car had 2 x the BHP I bet my times would be much the same.

I'm stuck in a groove.

[spd(john)]

Good luck for the 2015 season, our paths will cross at some time during the season.