the UK Driving Test - Is It Adequate?

[Tim Falce]

The latest thing is they want to increase the age of driving to 18, I think it should be lowered to 16.

[touringlegend]

I see the govt's contemplating changing the driving rules, eg making it compulsory to take a certain number of hours of lessons before sitting a test.

[Suze]

Why that Tim? Ask as you are an "older head" and though I said that for many years, there was no justification behind it, only pure impatience

touringlegend's post - personally disagree, if you are a quick learner you shouldn't be penalised by having to take more lessons and pay for it if you are perfectly competent.

[bella]

except with driving there's always something you can learn. if you can reverse park perfectly, and do that side of it then maybe you should be able to obtain time on a skid pan for a reasonable fee.

to ensure the safety of the majority, the minority have to be penalised. it's not fair on people who can't drive so well at the moment because they have to spend loads of money doing retests, and there's no discount for a second or third driving test. that's just as unfair as saying that you should have to do a certain number of hours of tuition.

and don't anyone say it's not the same thing because it is. in any system, a minority is penalised. and the number of people who can pass a test without a decent number of hours driving lessons is very minimal. if it will make the roads safer, do it. if it won't, don't.

personally i think it should be in conjunction with a time limit as well.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Suze

Why that Tim? Ask as you are an "older head" and though I said that for many years, there was no justification behind it, only pure impatience

1: I don't think you are any more mature at 17 or 18 than 16.
2: It would save deaths of Muppets on scooters by letting them drive earlier.
3: Impatience.

I was driving cars from about 8 or 9 and trucks from 13. Looking back, I was an arse on the road when I passed my test at "ahem" 17 and was still an arse for years, my wife says I still am so I don't think maturity has a lot to do with it until later in life.

The thing that makes you more careful are points on your licence and high insurance premiums, that all assumes you are one of the people who try to abide by some of the rules in life.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

I see the govt's contemplating changing the driving rules, eg making it compulsory to take a certain number of hours of lessons before sitting a test.

My first reaction to this is that it just shows the inadequacy of the test.

Originally Posted by Suze

touringlegend's post - personally disagree, if you are a quick learner you shouldn't be penalised by having to take more lessons and pay for it if you are perfectly competent.

However it isn't just about being able to do the test once, it is about being able to drive well consistently. Forcing people to have more lessons is a way to get people to drive more in a controlled environment. It is like flying hours for a pilot. The more you do the more used it it you are. It isn't a bad idea. Couple that with hours on a motorway and getting used to this part of driving and I may well agree.

[Suze]

I strongly believe motorway driving and night driving should be a compulsory part of learning - and if possible driving in bad weather conditions as well - eg fog, heavy rain etc - though that one isn't so easy

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Suze

I strongly believe motorway driving and night driving should be a compulsory part of learning - and if possible driving in bad weather conditions as well - eg fog, heavy rain etc - though that one isn't so easy

Go onto a dual carriageway and you have similar conditions to a motorway.
I wish I could have learnt to drive in the daylight, after passing my test I had to wear sunglasses for a month to get used to driving in the day.
I think anyone who learns to drive in the UK will experience rain and maybe some fog and even snow as my daughter did last year but one.

[bella]

where i learned to drive for example, it was a mad rush to get out of town to a stretch of dual carriageway 400 yards long, then belt round the roundabout, go round the other way and then head back into town. that was the size of the dual carriageway driving assessment.

perhaps the test should be split over a few days to encorporate the motorway and night driving assessment. something definitely needs to change though because no-one knows how to handle heavy rain, snow, ice or even bright sunshine. perhaps there should be a government investment in driving simulators, so that people can at least get some experience.

i quite like the idea of someone throwing a bucket of water at a learner driver at a random point in the exam though

[Suze]

heh yes!

The other thing I would like to see, and again not sure of the practicalities here or how it would work, is other things to be covered and the simulator may be the best bet here - may sound silly but floods and also what to do when you meet a car on a single track lane - both something I've learnt since moving more out to the country. It's perfectly feasible I could have been driving on my own when first coming across a flood / car on single lane and having to drive on bank and wouldn't necessarily known a) exactly what to do or b) be that confident about it.

[luke]

Originally Posted by falcemob

The latest thing is they want to increase the age of driving to 18, I think it should be lowered to 16.

Its 16 in America, and even 14 in some states of the USA which I think is too low.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by bella

..... something definitely needs to change though because no-one knows how to handle heavy rain, snow, ice or even bright sunshine.........
........i quite like the idea of someone throwing a bucket of water at a learner driver at a random point in the exam though

That also goes for older drivers as well, it's not just new drivers who are clueless.

[Asp]

Originally Posted by falcemob

Go onto a dual carriageway and you have similar conditions to a motorway.

IMHO, Dual Carriageways are more dangerous than motorways as you don't have the same acceleration/deceleration lanes and more categories of vehicles are allowed on them (eg. tractors). But that's offtopic...

On the subject of driving: what's needed is a split test. I said this when I was learning and stand by it, similar to what bella's suggesting.
First test is "basic" driving. Essentially the current test. After that you can drive on motorways only with supervision, and maybe even things like only driving at night with supervision or short journeys or whatever. A few months down the line, you take your full test to allow a complete licence. Thus ensuring that the new driver has the experience required.
You can then bring the "basic" test to 16 if you want, certainly a few ideas there.

Originally Posted by bella

where i learned to drive for example, it was a mad rush to get out of town to a stretch of dual carriageway 400 yards long, then belt round the roundabout, go round the other way and then head back into town. that was the size of the dual carriageway driving assessment

FWIW, my driving test didn't include any dual-carriageway driving. It was on some test routes, but my test was last one on a Friday. So (especially with school traffic) it was the shortest distance possible!

[bella]

i think the driving age should be raised if anything, or at least the driving alone without a person over the age of 21 age. i think the basic test is fine to take when you're 17, but that is the youngest people should be allowed to drive at. the full test should be done at age 18.

on private land is fine. in fact, everyone should be encouraged to drive on private property where available. mastering the basic controls of a car isn't something that should be done on public roads.

these ideas are all very well, but they're not very practical

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by bella

i quite like the idea of someone throwing a bucket of water at a learner driver at a random point in the exam though

Preferably when they are not in the car.

[bella]

spoilsport. it'd be a nice introduction to parenthood

[bella]

i think the problem with the test is that it is obsessive about really rather minor things. like has anyone ever had an accident caused by them NOT threading the wheel through their hands like a senior citizen? instead of concentrating on driving at the speed limit in the city, why aren't they teaching learners to drive at an appropriate speed on national limit roads? why don't people know NOT to swerve when a rabbit or pheasent runs in front of the car?

[Tim Falce]

If you read the report in the Times I think the main problem was more to do with attitudes to driving by young males, not the driving skills of the young, these are totaly different things.

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by bella

why aren't they teaching learners to drive at an appropriate speed on national limit roads?

That's part of the standard driving test, whether it's a 20/10/40/50/60/70 MPH road.

Originally Posted by bella

why don't people know NOT to swerve when a rabbit or pheasent runs in front of the car?

Because that's not always good advice. Nothing wrong with swerving around an object as long as you have the wits to ensure it is clear first and the skill to control the car. That's where the concept of "time in the car" comes from, the longer a learner spends in a car with an instructor the more different scenarios he/she will come across and be coached through.

[R59]

Originally Posted by Suze

Our nearest town, Hitchin, has a Sainsburys or Waitrose and we now shop at Sainsburys.

'ere, you're getting a little too close to my place!!

You can borrow my Nectar card if you like. I need some more points.......

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by bella

on private land is fine. in fact, everyone should be encouraged to drive on private property where available. mastering the basic controls of a car isn't something that should be done on public roads.

Worked for me, i first drove a car (on a beach in Wales) at the age of 13, and just as i was coming up to my 17th birthday, my dad put me on an intensive course every sunday in Tesco's car park (unfortunately, sunday opening would make that idea impracticle now )

Originally Posted by bella

i think the problem with the test is that it is obsessive about really rather minor things. like has anyone ever had an accident caused by them NOT threading the wheel through their hands like a senior citizen? instead of concentrating on driving at the speed limit in the city, why aren't they teaching learners to drive at an appropriate speed on national limit roads? why don't people know NOT to swerve when a rabbit or pheasent runs in front of the car?

The problem with driving schools is they teach you to pass the test, not to actually drive properly (fwiw, i never had one lesson, so maybe thats why i have this opinion)

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Mr V

The problem with driving schools is they teach you to pass the test, not to actually drive properly

Glad you put the winky on the end there as that sentence is the biggest load of BS that the anti driving school brigade come out with.

Originally Posted by bella

my proposition would be to make nicking a car, drink driving and being busted for big speeding offences when under the age of 25 an offence carrying an instant 10 year driving ban. mind you, that won't put off the little toe-rags who drive without a licence, but hey. it'd be a bit of an incentive.

Bella, I have a link to Saddam's hanging, you might enjoy that too. I take it you've never broken the speed limit.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Worked for me, i first drove a car (on a beach in Wales) at the age of 13, and just as i was coming up to my 17th birthday, my dad put me on an intensive course every sunday in Tesco's car park (unfortunately, sunday opening would make that idea impracticle now )

i learnt the basics of clutch control and parking age 13 at the parents workplace carpark. it meant as soon as i got in the driving instructors car i could control everything myself, and over the few months i was learning he only had to intervene twice ("i can get through that gap" *"bob" stomps on brake pedal* "not in my car you can't").

it annoys me no end when parents refuse to take their kids out on the road. my friend has been itching to drive for at least 3 years, but her old man thinks a laguna estate is too big for her to learn to drive in, even in a field or a car park lot. she is thus relegated to spending many many hundreds of pounds unnecessarily on driving lessons.

granted, some people aren't comfortable with teaching their own kids for whatever reasons, but they should be prepared to pay for the lessons if they won't do it.

Originally Posted by Mr V

The problem with driving schools is they teach you to pass the test, not to actually drive properly (fwiw, i never had one lesson, so maybe thats why i have this opinion)

personally as soon as i turned 17, iirc, i had 1 or 2 lessons a week and then drove around town and the surrounding area every night or so learning how to react to things myself.

[Suze]

Originally Posted by bella

personally as soon as i turned 17, iirc, i had 1 or 2 lessons a week and then drove around town and the surrounding area every night or so learning how to react to things myself.

The last part is so important in my opinion - driving in local town and around, eg to Silverstone / MK etc (ie no motorways so can do! ) has taught me a lot more than just what I was taught with the driving instructor.

[bella]

it's fair to say that they do teach you to pass the driving test in lessons, but that's because textbook driving isn't necessarily practical real life driving. it's like when you do gcse sciences, when you get to a level they tell you to forget everything you learnt at gcse because it's nonsense.

unfortunately with driving, you don't get someone to teach you how to apply what you've learned to everyday driving.

(by the way, suze, i don't know how much you've explored round your area but there's some excellent one way systems that really make you think on your feet and learn proper observation for daft lane changes and all sorts!)