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15 May 2009, 20:27 (Ref:2463117)
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#26 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 757
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15 May 2009, 20:39 (Ref:2463124)
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#27 | |||
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,710
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 and even if so, thats not Audis fault ... |
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15 May 2009, 21:18 (Ref:2463142)
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#28 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,873
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Sorry about misquoting Richards, yes, he was calling for the Petrols to have a break.
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15 May 2009, 22:36 (Ref:2463173)
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#29 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 492
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I keep reading about the performance difference being due to Factory vs Privateers. I can only think of one race so far where the diesels have faced a full on factory effort, and yeah it was a maiden race for the P1 Acura, but there is no way after watching Sebring that anyone could expect the full on factory effort of Acura to match the diesels.
Put them on a tight high downforce circuit like LimeRock or LongBeach, then you might see some parity. But on the bigger circuits the Pugs and Audis will just zoom away. (I wonder if three Acura drivers would be enough at Le Mans with those high lateral G forces they produce) I haven't seen any footage of the Spa race yet. I only have what I have read about it. After every yellow it seems the Pugs pulled easily away and then just maintained the gap. I'll dig around for more race reports, but I don't recall reading of even a minor scrap for a lap or two....end of yellow, off go the Pugs. The Pescas may have matched the pace of the Pugs during the race, but it would be more accurate if we stated the Pugs(once safely away from the pack) matched the pace of the Pescarolo Judds. If the Oreca Aims and Zyteks and Pescas and AMRs are still in the TV shots at Le Mans after two laps, I will be very very surprised. I suspect the 6 factory diesels will use the two privateer diesel teams to separate the petrol cars and try to lap them during the opening portions of the race. Once the petrols are dispatched, the two titans will begin slugging it out amoung themselves. |
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15 May 2009, 22:55 (Ref:2463178)
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#30 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 429
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I would be very interested to see what the Acura can do against a Pescarolo, Oreca or Lola-Aston Martin. Because I have the feeling the Acura will be nowhere and the European privateers will be much quicker. But I guess that this will never happen. Or maybe Aston Martin will do some after Le Mans races in the ALMS?
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15 May 2009, 23:15 (Ref:2463183)
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#31 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,812
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I've allways said it,grant the petrol cars a 5,5L V12 Twinturbo with these restrictors and al current diesels would be blown of the face of the earth... Never mind the fuel economy.
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16 May 2009, 01:35 (Ref:2463210)
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#32 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 51
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Politics aside, no amount of aerodynamic tweeking is gonna get those Aston Martins down the Mulsanne Straight any faster, that's just a plain fact. Simply put, there's a total of five places where cars reach 200 MPH per lap. The objective is to get there quickly, and stay as long as possible. With their superior grunt, diesels achieve it with spades. Henri Pescarolo knows that, and as a member of the dark side now, he's noticably absent from the debate - and far happier.
If aerodynamics ruled the roost, then the "factory" Acuras should have run circles around the oil burner brigade at Sebring; instead, they got their butt handed to them, on a track which certainly favored their characterics. Clearly, the previous chassis in P2 wasn't at fault. Had they simply twin-turbocharged their existing V-8 for P1 - where Honda Racing's real expertise lies - installed into a modified P2 chassis, then we could have drawn a better comparison relative to the factory diesel/petrol discussion. As it stands now, Prodive is as good a "factory" team as we're going to get; they remind me of TWR - minus the big bucks. And tactically, they're better than Peugeot. It would be nice though to do with a little less posturing from certain quarters, especially at this late date. And they really do need top-flight pilots in all the seats to make a solid case. Letting David Brabham go is trying to win on the cheap. Not good. Todd |
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16 May 2009, 08:19 (Ref:2463301)
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#33 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 322
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I supported Aston throughout the DBR9 years, but frankly that sentence sums up the whole LMP1 effort, it's a recycled chassis with suspect aerodynamic updates and a road derived engine against state of the art purpose built cars from established teams with big budgets. Tackling this issue from another angle: Does anyone have the corner times & trap speeds from last years Le Mans test day/qually/race? I'm curious to compare them to this year. I wonder given the adverse publicity of the 'diesel dominination' whether in recent years Audi and Peugeot in particular have chosen to use their extra power to overcome extra drag rather than increase top speed? Edit: Thinking back to Sebring this certainly seemed to be the case with the R15 as the Peugeot enjoyed a straight line advantage yet lap times were comparable. |
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16 May 2009, 12:20 (Ref:2463393)
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#34 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,210
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18 May 2009, 14:42 (Ref:2464584)
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#35 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 37
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Think about it, Aston Martin are in LMP1 this year mainly for the 24hrs. This is their number 1 aim as it is their anniversary year. All races so far have been testing grounds for this big event. Of course Richards is going to lobby the ACO if he thinks it could gain them an advantage, as mentioned previously it takes years of development to reach the level of the factory diesels, and although I would love to see Aston return in LMP1 in 2010 and beyond, I doubt this will happen. A meeting with the ACO could effectively 'leap frog' them up to the Audi, Pug level with almost no cost to the team, so are you really surprised they are trying it? Its part of the sport. I'm personally glad they are trying as it proves they are serious about taking the fight to the diesels at LM. Its a huge risk for Aston, they are the underdogs for sure despite their racing heritage. I say well done for even having the balls to undertake such a venture.
I still believe we have not seen the true potential of EITHER the peugeot or the AMR/Oreca cars. We will have to wait until next month to see that and I think (well hope really!) there will be a surprise.
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18 May 2009, 18:46 (Ref:2464728)
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#36 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,525
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A good point against Diesels. Last year RLM spoke to a Corvette driver (can't remember who) and he mentioned that Oliver Gavin had some breathing problems (and headaches) for a while after getting out of the car because he was stuck behind an LMP Diesel either in the Yellows or somewhere around the track during his stint.
Anyone who drives in Europe, at least, will understand this as the Diesel fumes are especially toxic. It's not just the environment, it's their health! Who's ever seen those tractor pulls in the Netherlands a few years back and other places? Those diesel powered tractors let out a ton of black smoke it made me sick! They should stop giving cars like Corsa Motorsports so much trouble to homologate since they're promoting alternative energy sources because even gasoline isn't exactly healthy! |
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18 May 2009, 19:48 (Ref:2464760)
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#37 | ||
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,348
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18 May 2009, 20:06 (Ref:2464780)
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#38 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,525
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I wouldn't be able to say the air quality is different if it isn't only about feeling naucious. |
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18 May 2009, 21:35 (Ref:2464829)
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#39 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,873
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18 May 2009, 21:40 (Ref:2464834)
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#40 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,348
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Or of collapsing drivers in a traffic jam...
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18 May 2009, 21:50 (Ref:2464839)
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#41 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,873
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Did Corvette not consider it to be the fact he was driving a front-engined V8 monster at a speed where the air con doesn't work properly? |
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19 May 2009, 06:51 (Ref:2464932)
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#42 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,546
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Diesel will emit carbon-black in any case because of combustion features. And carbon-black is one of the main cancerogens. And this problem is not finally solved yet even on premium engines. They should invent a new principle of power transformation. Of course,not electricity - in this case you only relocate the emissions from car to the plant.
I'm sure racing should help deliver some ideas. It only needs fair technical regulations. |
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19 May 2009, 07:38 (Ref:2464952)
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#43 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 406
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First of all, the fumes inside a Corvette with an engine just in front of you and going slow not allowing air flow through the car as normal, would cause this and would not matter which car was in front. Also, the fumes/emmissions are not "especially toxic" and cleaner now due to clean burn systems and better fuel quality, remember if you go and breathe in petrol/gas fumes it makes you kinda sick. There is no black smoke due whilst running due to partical filters. The tractor diesel is different to car diesel and the grade of diesel that North America has only recently been mandated to come up to European standards, hence the reason car manufacturers (Audi, BMW, Mercedes) are now importing cars in 2009. Sorry, disagree on all points and has little to do with the thread. |
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19 May 2009, 08:19 (Ref:2464978)
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#44 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,642
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The diesel advantage will be a thing of the past (quicker than you can say ACO) if there is even a hint of the Dancing Donkeys coming into sports car racing with a LMP1.
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19 May 2009, 08:34 (Ref:2464988)
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#45 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 406
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19 May 2009, 09:39 (Ref:2465023)
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#46 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,642
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20 May 2009, 09:23 (Ref:2465566)
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#47 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,121
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Aston to fight for 7th at Le Mans ???? Richards forgot the R10 Kolles and the Pesca 908... 
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20 May 2009, 17:28 (Ref:2465825)
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#48 | |||
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,487
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20 May 2009, 19:00 (Ref:2465884)
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#49 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,873
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21 May 2009, 03:18 (Ref:2466142)
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#50 | |||
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,487
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