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Old 27 Apr 2010, 10:43 (Ref:2680413)   #1
Irvine6
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Some advice needed please :)

Hi all,

I am currently a Marshal as i have always wanted to be involved in racing but the more i marshal the more i want to race.

What is the best way to go about getting my race licence? is it through the MSA site?

I also dont have a big budget so would i be right in thinking the best way for me to get started is in something like The ford XR championship or something along those lines?

Many thanks for any help it will be appreciated.
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 12:02 (Ref:2680468)   #2
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Check your wallet........are you SURE you want to race

OK - on the MSA site (msauk.org) click on "Getting Started" in the toolbar at the top and away you go.....

The "Go Racing" pack probably won't tell you much you don't know, and in all honesty in my experience the ARDS test won't either - maybe if you attend a course its better - but its the hoop you have to jump through.

As for where to start - a single make series might be a bit intense for starters - the racing tends to be very close, but its largely up to what you fancy....you could buy a prepared car for £2K upwards and compete in something like CSCC tintops or future classics - a friendly club offering good value - but no doubt plenty of others will have their recommendations.

Could be worth trying an arrive and drive hire package before deciding which way to jump?

Whatever, welcome to the other side of the bank, and enjoy!
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 12:20 (Ref:2680486)   #3
Al Weyman
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Putting it into perspective yes it is expensive no doubt about that but so is smoking, drinking every night, going on exotic foreign holidays several times a year, playing golf, sailing and a myriad of other things one can spend ones money on.

I do none of the above and attend just 8 or 9 race meetings year and if you work out that some people will spend over a £100 a week just killing themselves smoking I bet I spend less than that or not much more anyhow. What I am tryingto say is even on modest to average wages is can be done if you are prepared to make sacrifices in other areas for example I run about in my tow vehicle, a T reg Chevrolet Blazer but I could have a much fancier road car if I didnt race and need a tow vehicle.

BTW CTCRC's Pre-93 is a good series with tightly policed rules which can work out a lot cheaper and better fun to race in than something like TinTops a much more freer series because if guys are allowed to spend big bucks trust me they will. There is an Astra on the site for sale at the moment for £2500 I believe and all ready to go and its reasonably competitive as well as the regs do not allow out of control spending, the control tyres are reasonable and a Jap like a Civic can also be very competitive with near standard engines.

Last edited by Al Weyman; 27 Apr 2010 at 12:31.
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 15:02 (Ref:2680559)   #4
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Hi all,



I also dont have a big budget so would i be right in thinking the best way for me to get started is in something like The ford XR championship or something along those lines?

Many thanks for any help it will be appreciated.
Hi, its always going to be an "It depends" answer. If you already have a car that is big enough to tow with, then you have a few more options open. If you don't have a tow car/nowhere to store a trailer, may be worth thinking about a series where you can drive the car to the track. Seen any series racing (when marshalling) that you fancy? If you are on a budget, avoid any series with a reputation for damage, repair bills can add a lot to the cost of a season. As somebody has said above, when starting out a one make series can be a really good idea, as there are loads of people running similar cars for advice/info. Also if you come unstuck for a part on race day, chances are somebody else in the paddock will have it. If you are racing something unique, you need to think about carting a load of spares backwards and forwards as well as the car. Something lighter will (usually) cost less on tyres and brakes during a season. I'd probably draw up a list of must haves/preferences, then see which series' match up to your list. Eg FWD or RWD, one make or mixed, limited tuning/modifications allowed or open chequebook, road registered or out and out racers, etc etc.

There are quite a few series' out there aimed at people on a limited budget, no doubt the recruiting sargents will be along shortly
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 16:54 (Ref:2680615)   #5
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buy a kart !
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 18:47 (Ref:2680673)   #6
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Get as speed event licence (it's just money, no test) and do some sprints and hillclimbs in an everyday road car to see if you like it first of all. There'll be loads of people in loads of different cars, you'll get a real feel for what sort of car you like, then you can see where it can be raced. A great starting point!
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 18:56 (Ref:2680675)   #7
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Well I disagree on the one make series as I think they are a receipy for body damage. i also think driving to the track is a no no and can be more expensive in the long run. Try sitting 195 miles from home with a car you drove to the circuit that you just stuck in the barriers and wondering how the hell are you gonna get home. I have the t-shirt for that one!
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 19:19 (Ref:2680692)   #8
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Well I disagree on the one make series as I think they are a receipy for body damage. i also think driving to the track is a no no and can be more expensive in the long run. Try sitting 195 miles from home with a car you drove to the circuit that you just stuck in the barriers and wondering how the hell are you gonna get home. I have the t-shirt for that one!
Al, I agree on the towing to the venue, big no no. Having thrown it at the wall a few times last year I wouldnt have wanted to straighten it out at the track, and I would have though it would give you a major sycological (SP!) disadvantage as you would always be worried about the damage. But as for one make series I dont agree, lets face it the championship with the biggest reputation for damage is stock hatch racing, and thats not a one make. I think will get closer racing in one make series at the front, but ig your starting out and never raced its not likely you will be there for a few seasons.
Best advise is go for it, you wont regret it
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 20:10 (Ref:2680724)   #9
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Well thanks for all the info it has given me alot to think about..

Do any of you have sponsors or is it all done off your own back?
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 20:14 (Ref:2680728)   #10
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I personally gave up seeking out sponsors years ago as I found no one really interested at club level and to be honest I don't reallly blame them as they won't get much out of it if you are realistic.
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 20:15 (Ref:2680729)   #11
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It is possible to get sponsors but I wouldnt expect one in your first year, I was lucky as my boss threw a few quid in. But to be honest in your first year you have little to show potential sponsors. A good thing to do is try and get something in your local paper after each race event (with a picture) then in your second year you have something to show future sponsors
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 21:36 (Ref:2680804)   #12
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I have been very lucky over the years to get race entries and parts paid for by sponsors. However you can be a brilliant driver and not get a penny if you don't know the right people. Unless someone you know has a money tree in their garden, to get a sponsor in this economic climate is just about impossible especially actual money (possibly oil etc).
I hope whatever you do in the end you will enjoy it as it is addictive, if you do choose to buy a car get one already prepared and something that is easy and cheap to work on ! Go on you know you want to
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Old 28 Apr 2010, 10:26 (Ref:2681041)   #13
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Another consideration is how far do you want to travel? Travel costs can be quite high if you're doing a national championship (fuel, overnight costs, extra days off work etc etc), stay local and you cut that drastically. Where are you based?
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Old 28 Apr 2010, 19:10 (Ref:2681307)   #14
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Im from North Wales so my main tracks are oulton and Angelsey.

I work for myself so im lucky in the sense that i have a van that will tow and i no of a yard where i can keep the car. Also if i need a day off to travel back its not as if i need to check with the boss!! lol

At the moment im still heading towards something like the xr championship as there are plenty of spares and like someone has mentioned already if i dont have a part im sure someone else will..

I have just looked at the MSA website and checked out the "Getting Started pack", after getting that it mentions the ARDS test, How much does that cost? and will i get me my National B licence and is that what i need for the XR championship or something along those lines?

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Old 28 Apr 2010, 19:34 (Ref:2681315)   #15
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You will need to get a medical before you go for your ards test, ards prices vary from venue to venue so shop around but some offer more training before you take the test. Once you have passed you will have a national B which means you will be ok for the XR's
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Old 28 Apr 2010, 20:02 (Ref:2681333)   #16
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Im from North Wales so my main tracks are oulton and Angelsey.

I have just looked at the MSA website and checked out the "Getting Started pack", after getting that it mentions the ARDS test, How much does that cost? and will i get me my National B licence and is that what i need for the XR championship or something along those lines?
I did my Ards at Oulton, as its my local track too - Think it cost £250 - and it looks like it still does: http://www.clubmsv.com/car-home/ards...FReX2Aod1mXEGQ - on top of your Go Racing pack at £65 and whatever your doctor charges you for a medical - normally £50 - £80 range.....

Then you'll need a racesuit, helmet, preferably boots, gloves and fireproof long johns and vest. So you'll be looking in the region of £1000 - £1500 to get started...plus a car, of course!

Hope we haven't put you off......as an long-time rallyman (started rallying in the mid 70s) I was a bit sniffy about the roundy-round stuff, but once I tried it......I was hooked!
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Old 29 Apr 2010, 11:20 (Ref:2681586)   #17
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Yes, motorsport is sodding expensive... But worth every penny IMHO!

Given your location, have you thought about the NW Sports & Saloons?

http://www.barc.net/regional_centres...west/champ.php

I have no connection, but used to do a similar championship called the NSSCC which is based around Croft. Friendly paddock, run whatever car you like, no big egos (generally) and minimal contact. Oh, one more piece of advice... Buy a pre-built car rather than preparing one yourself! It will be thousands cheaper and a lot less of a PITA in the long run, so long as you look at a few and get a good 'un. I picked up an ex-one make championship Rover 216 GTi a few months back for £1700, and with it now fettled and race ready it stands me in at less than £2500 - you couldn't built it for less if you ask me
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Old 29 Apr 2010, 11:45 (Ref:2681600)   #18
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Im from North Wales so my main tracks are oulton and Angelsey.
Hi
I marshal and race (well drive around at the back a bit) too. You will find there are a couple of others that do too, Stuart is Stock Hatch and Mark with Golfs ; has been known for Mark to marshal at Oulton too on the odd occasion.

You have a good route as most of the races will come to you; so ask around the paddock when you spot something you are interested in. Chat to some of the drivers and the co-ordinator. That way if you are interested you can look out for cars already for sale (as someone moves on). And drivers are always haapy to share and natter, almost as bad as Marshals !!
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Old 29 Apr 2010, 11:47 (Ref:2681603)   #19
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A race suit and helmet does'nt have to cost that much, see Max (Midgetman on here) he will always cut you a good deal, Nomex underwear, boots & gloves are not mandatory so I recon you could be kitted out for a tad over £300.

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Old 29 Apr 2010, 19:49 (Ref:2681843)   #20
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Thanks for the replies and all the suggestions, i think i will start asking round the paddock as has been suggedted.

Hopefully i will find a series to suit me, im glad to hear the overalls etc dont have to cost over £1000!!

Thanks to andy for the PM aswell
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Old 29 Apr 2010, 22:13 (Ref:2681930)   #21
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Don't fall into the old trap and think that to go faster and get nearer the front that you need to spend ever increasing amounts of money as you can't "just" buy your way to a race win (of course you may be the new Senna) !
To a point any half reasonable new driver can run midfield with a reasonably cheap but sorted car , with a bit more experience you can make inroads towards the sharp end.
The challenge is to beat the check book racers on a shoe string. A guy I know remortgaged his house to go racing, after a couple of seasons he lost his house and his wife because he became completely obsessed with it
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Old 30 Apr 2010, 00:02 (Ref:2681968)   #22
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I'll second what Gordon has said above. You can spend as much as you like on this game - and then some! But remember that, unless you are the next Senna, then it's just a hobby, and as such, you're supposed to enjoy it - which you will as long as you approach it with the right attitude.

The fact is, you don't have to spend a fortune to be competitive - I probably spend less on it over a year than the guy who goes out smoking/drinking and getting ****ed every Friday night. Nothing against smoking and drinking, just demonstrating that if you get your priorities right, you can probably afford it.

Of course, it will seem expensive initially as you've got quite a few one-off expenses - ARDS test, overalls, helmet, etc, but I reckon a grand will cover the lot if you spend wisely, and once it's done, it's done, and you won't have to suffer those expenses again for a few years.

And if you happen to be any good, it'll all be worth it when you realise you've just finished ahead of a handful of cars that you know have cost maybe 10 times what you paid for yours! As Gordon said, the challenge is to beat the 'open cheque book brigade', and it's sooooo satisfying if you can!
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Old 30 Apr 2010, 09:31 (Ref:2682079)   #23
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Originally Posted by Irvine6 View Post
Thanks for the replies and all the suggestions, i think i will start asking round the paddock as has been suggedted.

Hopefully i will find a series to suit me, im glad to hear the overalls etc dont have to cost over £1000!!

Thanks to andy for the PM aswell

Sorry if I confused / frightened you with those figures....my £1k - £1.5K range was meant to include all your start-up costs - just reflecting what it cost me, getting my gear from Demon Tweeks - and I think mine was just around the £1k mark (including the optional boots and gloves), although that did include a new race seat as my body-shape appears to be a tad "larger" than my mate's that I share the car with - I could "just" fit in his race seat but couldn't operate the pedals....
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Old 30 Apr 2010, 13:49 (Ref:2682196)   #24
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Old 30 Apr 2010, 18:15 (Ref:2682312)   #25
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Hi
I marshal and race (well drive around at the back a bit) too. You will find there are a couple of others that do too, Stuart is Stock Hatch and Mark with Golfs ; has been known for Mark to marshal at Oulton too on the odd occasion.

You have a good route as most of the races will come to you; so ask around the paddock when you spot something you are interested in. Chat to some of the drivers and the co-ordinator. That way if you are interested you can look out for cars already for sale (as someone moves on). And drivers are always haapy to share and natter, almost as bad as Marshals !!
Thanks Brendan!!

Dont know if any one has said this but when you get the race car try to get one where parts are fairley easy to get hold off!!

Couple of web sites spring to my mind:
www.racecarsdirect.com
www.motorsportads.com
www.phil-law.co.uk (stock hatch forum)
www.750mc.co.uk
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