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Old 23 Dec 2011, 15:09 (Ref:3003580)   #2451
gwyllion
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As I explained in http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...53#post3003153 and http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...03#post3003203 such rule exist in 2012.

In Le Mans the best 2 out of 3 designated cars score points and all other WEC rounds only 2 designated cars score points for the manufacturers title and
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Old 23 Dec 2011, 23:47 (Ref:3003747)   #2452
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I just re-read this interview with Treluyer from mid November.
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Symbolic, because, for the champion of 2008 it could be the last time in this competition that he has raced since 2001. "The timing WEC (World Endurance Championship) has just been unveiled and Spa clashes with a round of Super GT 2012", explained the driver from Alencon. "I don't yet have formal proposals to participate in the new Endurance World Championship, but if they arrive, they will fit with the direction I want to give my career!"
If you combine that with the recent announcements that Treluyer will quit Super GT with Nismo and that he was testing the hybrid R18, it is obvious that he will go to WEC with Audi.
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Old 23 Dec 2011, 23:57 (Ref:3003753)   #2453
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Originally Posted by gwyllion View Post
I just re-read this interview with Treluyer from mid November.

If you combine that with the recent announcements that Treluyer will quit Super GT with Nismo and that he was testing the hybrid R18, it is obvious that he will go to WEC with Audi.
Or Peugeot snatched him (100% kidding)
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Old 31 Dec 2011, 20:17 (Ref:3005947)   #2454
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Happy New Year all forum!
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Old 2 Jan 2012, 20:04 (Ref:3006531)   #2455
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and the whole shabagan.
Shebang perhaps ? ..... you had me wonderin about that word for awhile !!!
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Old 2 Jan 2012, 23:28 (Ref:3006591)   #2456
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Shebang perhaps ? ..... you had me wonderin about that word for awhile !!!
LOL yup, that was it. I was a bit off :P

Happy New Year you Badger hahah
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“It's fine that F1 goes all over the world, but we must not exaggerate by going to race in deserts or where there is no culture for racing," di Montezemolo continued
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Old 3 Jan 2012, 10:33 (Ref:3006673)   #2457
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http://www.autohebdo.fr/endurance/le...le-calendrier- has a short interview with Ullrich.

He claims that Peugeot was better on the ILMC tracks because they started developing/testing much earlier than Audi. While Audi was working on their Le Mans setup, Peugeot had already done their Le Mans preparation and could adopt their car for the sprint ILMC races.

He also explains that they will only run with hybrid system if they are convinced that it has a performance advantage and if the system is completely reliable.
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Old 3 Jan 2012, 12:08 (Ref:3006703)   #2458
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http://www.autohebdo.fr/endurance/le...le-calendrier- has a short interview with Ullrich.

He claims that Peugeot was better on the ILMC tracks because they started developing/testing much earlier than Audi. While Audi was working on their Le Mans setup, Peugeot had already done their Le Mans preparation and could adopt their car for the sprint ILMC races.

He also explains that they will only run with hybrid system if they are convinced that it has a performance advantage and if the system is completely reliable.
in my opinion peugeot hadn't the same pace of audi at LM (even if audi won for just 13 seconds) because they had chosen a more careful attitude to avoid a disaster like the 2010!
audi used a map to have his engine more powerfull (but less fuel efficency) and had a much better efficency of tyres than peugeot for almost all the race long (the reverse happened at imola race). Then think about that the #2 had a perfect race with 0 problems while the peugeot #7 had the wurz indianapolis crash and gene slow stints, the #8 had some penality pit if i remeber well and the #9 too (the only and terribly slow stint of lamy can be considered a problem too). If peugeot dared less in 2010 and more in 2011 maybe we were talking about a 3hit strike.
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Old 3 Jan 2012, 14:26 (Ref:3006747)   #2459
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Also, Peugeot's Le Mans strategy was very much based on having a better fuel economy, an advantage that didn't really came into play too much because of the massive caution periods.

So in a way, the two Audi crashes were a good thing for Audi as they massively helped them in that regard.
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Old 3 Jan 2012, 17:40 (Ref:3006815)   #2460
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LOL yup, that was it. I was a bit off :P

Happy New Year you Badger hahah
And to you
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Old 3 Jan 2012, 20:22 (Ref:3006869)   #2461
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http://forums.fourtitude.com/entry.p...ds-an-American

Bonanomi, Duval....and Long?
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Old 4 Jan 2012, 14:24 (Ref:3007143)   #2462
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That's simply their opinion and is not based on the real facts, the Long thing.
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Old 4 Jan 2012, 14:39 (Ref:3007147)   #2463
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I doubt Flying Lizard would be glad to see Long go to Audi. Besides that didn't Porsche announce their factory drivers (of which Long is one) having a busy GT schedule this year?
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Old 4 Jan 2012, 15:05 (Ref:3007154)   #2464
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The whole story is just wishful thing and guess work. Duval is most likely going to Toyota.
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Old 4 Jan 2012, 15:22 (Ref:3007160)   #2465
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The whole story is just wishful thing and guess work. Duval is most likely going to Toyota.
I believe in that to, probably he will run in the second Toyota at Le Mans.
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Old 10 Jan 2012, 13:26 (Ref:3009817)   #2466
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Article at DSC Subscribers' section about the R18/R18H. It reports on the rumored 4 car entry at Le Mans and such rumors, but also reports on the R18's visibility issues. Anyone read that section of the article?
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Old 10 Jan 2012, 13:57 (Ref:3009834)   #2467
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Article at DSC Subscribers' section about the R18/R18H. It reports on the rumored 4 car entry at Le Mans and such rumors, but also reports on the R18's visibility issues. Anyone read that section of the article?
Yes, there is a picture of a model of the R18 in white that shows the screen "pillars" clearly and makes the point that in black they do not show up. If that is an accurate dippiction of these so called pillars there is no wonder the drivers complain of visability.
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Old 10 Jan 2012, 14:00 (Ref:3009836)   #2468
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Picture from DSC:
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Old 10 Jan 2012, 16:31 (Ref:3009883)   #2469
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Yes, there is a picture of a model of the R18 in white that shows the screen "pillars" clearly and makes the point that in black they do not show up. If that is an accurate dippiction of these so called pillars there is no wonder the drivers complain of visability.
Thats not accurate - there are large A pillars in the Audi's windscreen before door opening - I have mentioned before that I asked Chris (cant remember his surname), the R18 tech chief, at the TT pit visit whether the large A post affected the drivers visibility and his answer was that the size of the A posts didn't matter because the tall wheelarches would prevent better vision if the posts were smaller. The drivers eyeline was clearly below the level of the wheelarches.

The cars problem is and has always been the fact that the wheelarches effectively prevent any meaningful sideways vision.
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Old 13 Jan 2012, 10:21 (Ref:3011078)   #2470
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Just read on page 91 of this months race car engineering magazine that the R18 hybrid system is infact the same williams based electro-flywheel system used by porsche in the GT3R Hybrid, the logic being that Audi are parts of the same group as porsche and it will also help Porsces LMP1 development.......shocker!!!......the information comes from Hartmut Kristen who is the motorsports director at Porsche.........I must admit to being very surprised at this news as the Williams system is a complex and weighty beast, looks totally un-related to road car technology and nowhere near as simple and light as Flybrids pure mechanical flywheel system.........If I remember correctly this Williams flywheel KERS system is shockingly heavy, 47Kg for the flywheel, 10Kg for the power electronics plus another 20Kg (approx) for the front axle based motor/generator, so approx 77Kg......... consider an F1 style KERS system weighs about 20-30Kg and its a real difference.....hmmmm........it must have been a packaging nightmare putting all that clobber in an LMP1 tub, perhaps thats another reason why it was re-designed???...
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Old 13 Jan 2012, 10:52 (Ref:3011095)   #2471
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Just read on page 91 of this months race car engineering magazine that the R18 hybrid system is infact the same williams based electro-flywheel system used by porsche in the GT3R Hybrid, the logic being that Audi are parts of the same group as porsche and it will also help Porsces LMP1 development.......shocker!!!......the information comes from Hartmut Kristen who is the motorsports director at Porsche.........I must admit to being very surprised at this news as the Williams system is a complex and weighty beast, looks totally un-related to road car technology and nowhere near as simple and light as Flybrids pure mechanical flywheel system.........If I remember correctly this Williams flywheel KERS system is shockingly heavy, 47Kg for the flywheel, 10Kg for the power electronics plus another 20Kg (approx) for the front axle based motor/generator, so approx 77Kg......... consider an F1 style KERS system weighs about 20-30Kg and its a real difference.....hmmmm........it must have been a packaging nightmare putting all that clobber in an LMP1 tub, perhaps thats another reason why it was re-designed???...
Looking at the Porsche's implementation. They put the flywheel next to the driver. I guess the Williams flywheel has a more flexible positioning. The F1 KERS needs to be attached to the engine as far as I know. The Williams solution gives you the freedom to position the flywheel where you want.
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Old 13 Jan 2012, 11:05 (Ref:3011102)   #2472
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I often read that Audi and Porsche will compete with each other in 2014 with different technology and that the VW group has decided that Audi should use a diesel engine in combination with a flywheel based KERS and Porsche a petrol engine in combination with a battery based KERS.

Yes, the Porsche solution is very heavy, but is also twice as powerfull as an F1 KERS.
  • 911 hybrid
    • electric motors: 2 x 60 kW (version 1.0) vs 2 x 75 kW (version 2)
    • flywheel battery: 0.2 kWh = 720 kJ capacity (version 1.0) (source)
  • F1 KERS
    • 1 x 60 kW electric motor
    • chemical battery with a capacity of 6.67 sec x 60 kW = 400 kJ
I did not find the capacity of the latest version of the Williams Hybrid Power flywheel battery. However, in http://www.institutequarterly.com/IQ...rticle-04.html I read that
Quote:
WHP is working on flywheels weighing tens of kilograms, with power ratings of around 100-150kW and capable of storing between 0.25kWh and 0.5kWh.
It is important to note that the Porsche system works on the front wheels and hence can recover a lot more kinetic energy than a system that works on the rear axle, such as the Flybrid mechnical flywheel solution or an F1 KERS.

Finally, it is quite straightforward to replace the Williams flywheel battery with a more conventional battery (e.g., lithium ion) because the rest of the system is completely electric.
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Old 13 Jan 2012, 11:39 (Ref:3011117)   #2473
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If I remember correctly this Williams flywheel KERS system is shockingly heavy, 47Kg for the flywheel, 10Kg for the power electronics plus another 20Kg (approx) for the front axle based motor/generator, so approx 77Kg......... consider an F1 style KERS system weighs about 20-30Kg and its a real difference
If I do a search, I find slightly different numbers for the weight.
  • 911 hybrid 1.0: 45 kg for flywheel, 68 kg for front axle motor/generator, 130 kg in total
  • 911 hybrid 2.0: 20% less than previous version, 105 kg in total
The solutions of the Flybrid and Zytek that raced last year at Le Mans have the following specifications:
Quote:
The complete Flybrid CFT KERS pictured above and as used in LMP1 sportscar racing is capable of 100 kW and 540 kJ of storage but weighs less than 40 kg. This is a full wet weight including the hardware shown, the electro hydraulic control system, KERS control unit, wiring loom, all fluids and the oil cooler.
source: http://www.cftkers.com
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ZPH will weigh c.50kg and produce c.40kW of power.
source: http://www.zytekmotorsport.co.uk/zyt...%20_system.pdf
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Old 13 Jan 2012, 12:29 (Ref:3011139)   #2474
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Looking at the Porsche's implementation. They put the flywheel next to the driver. I guess the Williams flywheel has a more flexible positioning. The F1 KERS needs to be attached to the engine as far as I know. The Williams solution gives you the freedom to position the flywheel where you want.
Williams abandoned using the flywheel system for F1 because of the change to regs banning pitstops meaning a bigger fuel tank was needed which meant the fly wheel would have had to worked around.

Porsche use a development of that system.
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Old 13 Jan 2012, 12:36 (Ref:3011144)   #2475
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hi gwyllion, thanks for confirming the motor-generator weight, mine was an approximation at 20Kg, but 45Kg is obviously a very heavy piece of kit!........I'm pretty sure the F1 KERS systems are in the region of 20-30Kg, it was a rough comparison in all honesty.......... but the point still stands, the williams flywheel system is one heavy mo-fo........it will be interesting to see how they all compare, for sure I cant see pug and Toyotas systems being anywhere near as heavy

have just dug our race engine magazine from aug 2010 for the williams -porsche flywheel feature.......they say that a braking event lasted about 2 seconds and this therefore harvests 240KJ with the 2 60KW motors........ the flywheel can rev to 40,000rpm - max......but at the nurburgring 24hr race they ran it between 28K-36K for safety reasons and were able to store 680KJ maximum.......the ACO rules state that only 500KJ can be applied (used) between braking events, so this williams energy storage system may be limited for LMP1 use, as its going to almost completley discharge between braking events........but perhaps thats ok???......who am I to say!!!
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