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Old 3 Feb 2012, 05:21 (Ref:3020854)   #76
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in my opinion if the intersting of manufacter for grand-am will rise we'll have a sort of post-modern IMSA GTP, cars with standardized chassis/tubs and with more aero efficent silouhette style bodykit. It won't be so bad afterall! but can't be compared with lmp cars.
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Old 3 Feb 2012, 09:05 (Ref:3020905)   #77
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Bingo. Well, except that the DPs now look better than most of the P2 cars. What a bizarro world we live in!
Really?

'Eye of the beholder', I guess......

The LMP2 looks like the real racing car to me..... T'other reminds me of Wendy Wools....... (No disrespect intended!)
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Old 3 Feb 2012, 09:22 (Ref:3020914)   #78
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Really?

'Eye of the beholder', I guess......

The LMP2 looks like the real racing car to me..... T'other reminds me of Wendy Wools....... (No disrespect intended!)
I'm not joking around. The DPs have changed their looks significantly since 2011 and so have the LMP2s with the addition of BHHs and BHFs. BHFs have always been ugly, but they look even worse on cars that were not designed for them. Just look at the pictures I posted a few posts up and give me an honest answer. I despise everything Grand-Am stands for, but at least they realized one of their biggest problems was the looks of the cars and they have tried to address that. On the other hand, the ACO has gone in the opposite direction. I'm just saying. Looks are subjective obviously, but I think people are set in their ways without considering how the 2012 cars look.
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Old 3 Feb 2012, 12:49 (Ref:3020999)   #79
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I agree... P2 is starting to remind me a lot of DPs too. Very little difference between cars (which are either new or older than dinosaurs), weird re-brandings, similarity in speed compared to GTs, and extensive performance balancing which doesn't really make sense as it's mainly a category for gentlemen drivers. It also used to be a class of horrendous reliability, but just like in DPs the last couple of years have shown it's no longer a major issue.
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Old 3 Feb 2012, 12:57 (Ref:3021004)   #80
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agreed, part of me's hoping they find a way to merge the two in future because current LMP cars are starting to look daft with all these fins, tiny wings and holes cut out of them.

Normally I'd say "at least we have the GTs to look at", but they're getting much thinner on the ground to make way for more Oreca Nissans.
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Old 3 Feb 2012, 13:48 (Ref:3021028)   #81
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agreed, part of me's hoping they find a way to merge the two in future.
lmp2 and dp? no effing way.
new dp=tubeframe, somewhat road-car-ish look
lmp2=carbon fibre chassis; no connection to road cars (maybe just the engine is production based)

imho lmp2 should stay this way (but without those ugly holes and fins) and shouldnt have gt-like bodywork (there is already a gte category)
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Old 3 Feb 2012, 14:31 (Ref:3021046)   #82
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I have not seen the new DPs in person. Still...
And there have been no photos of the new LMP2's with fins and holes. I'm not saying they will look good, but they haven't been seen in person.

No matter what we think of the looks, the LMP2's are attracting entrants. 9 in WEC, plus how many in ALMS and ELMS?
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Old 3 Feb 2012, 14:49 (Ref:3021051)   #83
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And there have been no photos of the new LMP2's with fins and holes. I'm not saying they will look good, but they haven't been seen in person.
Well, we did see the Pecom & L5 Lolas last year with the BHF. IMO, it was pretty bad looking. Those old plow-nosed Lolas were not designed for the fins. The sketches of the Orecas and Zyteks look even worse. Maybe they won't turn out to be so bad in the flesh, but I doubt it. I think the sketches we've seen are pretty accurate as far as sketches go. Stuff like the BHHs only make matters worse.

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No matter what we think of the looks, the LMP2's are attracting entrants. 9 in WEC, plus how many in ALMS and ELMS?
Sure, but what does that offer the spectator? Frankly, I have little use for a very politicized class (and that's before BoP) from a technical standpoint that is Pro-Am and uses aging chassis that are becoming more and more ugly. The cost-capped nature and performance guaranteed nature of P2 cars (well, the politically favored at least) makes P2 an attractive option for gentleman team owners, rent-a-rider team owners, and related groups, but so does LMPC. At least LMPC does not have political problems. It's not like TV is going to show WEC P2s anyway.
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Old 3 Feb 2012, 16:00 (Ref:3021079)   #84
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The Zytek was never a pretty car in the first place anyway.
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Old 3 Feb 2012, 16:12 (Ref:3021084)   #85
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It's not like TV is going to show WEC P2s anyway.
You're probably right, but now that they can't show Quesnel's facial expressions after every 30 seconds or go to one of those neverending Peugeot onboards, we might actually get more than 5 minutes of coverage of other classes. Sometimes. Maybe.

ALMS provides so much better TV explosure for other classes. I was just rewatching last year's Sebring and PLM and straight from the first lap they were primaly focusing on the tight GT battle, even though for once there was enough of interest in P1 as well... in Europe and particulary Le Mans they love to cover nothing but frontrunning diesels for the first 40 minutes and then maybe show a clip of some Porsche that is stuck on gravel trap.

But this is common knowledge so I don't know what I'm on about.

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Old 3 Feb 2012, 16:22 (Ref:3021093)   #86
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You're probably right, but now that they can't show Quesnel's facial expressions after every 30 seconds or go to one of those neverending Peugeot onboards, we might actually get more than 5 minutes of coverage of other classes. Sometimes. Maybe.
Not likely. Hughes de Chaunac is more camera friendly than Quesnel. He'll probably get even more airtime than ole' OQ. Granted, Hughes was around last year so maybe it'll even out to be the same. I don't know.
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Old 3 Feb 2012, 16:40 (Ref:3021105)   #87
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Not likely. Hughes de Chaunac is more camera friendly than Quesnel. He'll probably get even more airtime than ole' OQ. Granted, Hughes was around last year so maybe it'll even out to be the same. I don't know.
My rough predictions of what next year's WEC TV coverage will consist:
Dr Ullrich's face 30%
De Chaunac's face 10%
Audi/Toyota onboards 20%
Audi/Toyota mechanics and personell 10%
Other Audi/Toyota coverage 20%
Other classes 10%

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Old 3 Feb 2012, 17:41 (Ref:3021128)   #88
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When you watch LMP's with the BHF in person you barely notice them after a couple of laps, except on the Audi. The new DP's do look much better but they still look big and slow. I think the vast majority of us at Daytona were interested in the GT battle, no one was talking about the DP's. At Sebring there will be plenty of excitement for the LMP's. Thankfully there are multiple quality P2 options for customers to purchase. I don't mind gentlemen drivers in P2 if they are allowing a substantial grid of quality cars in the WEC and at Le Mans. AGD, livery can make or break the look of a car as well IMO. Technologically speaking, tube frame car are of no interest to me, I try to like them in Grand Am but I just can't. I find myself cheering for Audi, Porsche, and Ferrari. That is where we spend all our time on the paddock too, looking at aspirational cars we can drive on the road. LMP's are interesting because they are pushing the envelope of technology.
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Old 3 Feb 2012, 17:59 (Ref:3021138)   #89
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When you watch LMP's with the BHF in person you barely notice them after a couple of laps, except on the Audi.
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AGD, livery can make or break the look of a car as well IMO.
Well, some BHFs are better than others, that's for sure. The Peugeot one was not bad relatively speaking. The Audi one was very obvious and it grabbed my attention everytime I saw it. It looks like the Toyota one will be even worse, but that's probably because of the paint scheme.

The problem is that the Lolas, Orecas, Zyteks, and so forth have what appear to be "tacked on" fins. They look horrible. Really bad. The fins don't fit the design of the cars at all like they did perhaps with the Peugeot. The BHHs won't help either.

As far as getting used to the eyesores, well, I don't know. Maybe I can adjust to the BHHs by themselves, but the fins are just so in your face on most of these cars. Even if I do get used to them, all I have to do is look at a picture of a older race and wonder where things went wrong! A little snip here or there might not change things too much in a vacuum, but all of a sudden these LMPs are looking like Michael Jackson during his later years. Scary!

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Technologically speaking, tube frame car are of no interest to me, I try to like them in Grand Am but I just can't. I find myself cheering for Audi, Porsche, and Ferrari. That is where we spend all our time on the paddock too, looking at aspirational cars we can drive on the road. LMP's are interesting because they are pushing the envelope of technology.
At the end of the day, looks aren't the most important thing. It can be important in terms of gaining viewers, but it's not the most important thing to me. Even ignoring the looks factor, P2 has some issues. Yeah, the car count is good, but it seems like politically dictated, highly controlled in a chaotic way, fakish Pro-Am racing. It's kind of an ugly situation. It's kind of DPish (even ignoring the looks) to that extent. It may be even worse - from a philosophical perspective of course.

I have really liked P2 in the past and I don't really have a problem with stock block engines (if the definition of "stock" is universal). Cost-capping has potential, but what is and what isn't cost-capped should be defined. It's just the ACO's execution of those ideas that leaves a lot to be desired IMO.
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Old 4 Feb 2012, 00:02 (Ref:3021274)   #90
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I'm very concerned by GTE-Pro entries. In the World Championship it's just 5 entries. If two retire, it gets really boring. If there are only 30 spots available, then one of the non-pro classes should be cut to populate the remaining three.

And at the 24h it's jsut 9 Pro cars versus 13 Am cars. Why not swap one or two of them for a pro IMSA Performance or Aston Martin?

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P2's are carbon fibre monocoques, real Le Mans cars - not tube framers from the 80's...
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The LMP2 looks like the real racing car to me
Ditto. Old DPs looked like cars designed to be cheap, and now designed to look a bit faster. But LMPs look like cars designed to actually go fast
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Old 4 Feb 2012, 04:17 (Ref:3021317)   #91
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The LM P1 class has also expanded with six different cars over nine competitors: six cars with petrol engine and three cars to hybrid engines...! Diesel engines will not be represented this year in the WEC, which is unusual in this category.
http://www.lemans.org/en/races/fia-w...mise_6124.html

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Old 4 Feb 2012, 04:43 (Ref:3021323)   #92
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And at the 24h it's jsut 9 Pro cars versus 13 Am cars. Why not swap one or two of them for a pro IMSA Performance or Aston Martin?
Agree with that.

I think they need to build more garages in a bid to expand the GTE field, especially Pro. P2 is massive this year, I'm looking forward to it in some respect, I'm just worried that in typical P2 fashion only 3 will finish!
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Old 4 Feb 2012, 04:48 (Ref:3021324)   #93
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Well, the R18s do look a little bit like DeLoreans. Maybe Ullrich installed a Mr. Fusion on them? Or maybe the other part of the R18 hybrid is powered by hot air after all!
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Old 4 Feb 2012, 05:42 (Ref:3021327)   #94
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You know, I read that and my eyes crossed. Just chalked it up to the Frogs, or a really bad translation. WTF?
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Old 4 Feb 2012, 05:55 (Ref:3021330)   #95
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Just chalked it up to the Frogs,
Yeah, maybe. Plus, I'm guessing a woman wrote that. 'Nuff said!






I'm going to go run and hide now!
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Old 4 Feb 2012, 06:13 (Ref:3021332)   #96
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Yeah, maybe. Plus, I'm guessing a woman wrote that. 'Nuff said!






I'm going to go run and hide now!
Hah!
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Old 7 Feb 2012, 07:49 (Ref:3022504)   #97
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Its clearly a bad translation certainly what is meant is diesel only and not diesel hybrid - no need for such fuss and ridicule
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Old 8 Feb 2012, 06:40 (Ref:3022980)   #98
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Its clearly a bad translation certainly what is meant is diesel only and not diesel hybrid - no need for such fuss and ridicule
Geesh, sorry.
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Old 8 Feb 2012, 08:04 (Ref:3022999)   #99
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I'm going to go run and hide now!
Best you do.......
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Old 9 Feb 2012, 09:21 (Ref:3023586)   #100
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