[Team] Haas: Gene Haas of NASCAR attempting to start F1 team

[csirl]

Originally Posted by steve_r

This is not some kind of insular closed-shop

I think that's a good description of modern F1

It's nothing to do with logistics. Most of the races are outside Europe. There are nearly equal numbers of races in Asia and Europe. If it were logistics, then all the teams would be based in the middle east.

Anyway, most "British" F1 teams are multinational affairs these days

Since when? It appears that the majority of key people in the majority of teams are from the UK? If it were genuinely a multinational affair, we'd have a lot more diversity. About the only thing multinational about the teams is that they spend multinational money.

As I've said many times before, the reason the majority of teams are based in the UK is that since Bernie came to power, the rules have favoured Bernie's former FOCA colleagues. Remember that Bernie first got involved at that level to get the best deal possible for British teams (at the expense of others). Unfortunately he was too good at his job!

[Paradise City]

Teams have a global identity. Williams and Ferrari are probably the most British and Italian respectively, Red Bull is Austrian/global, Sauber is Swiss, Marussia is Russian/global, Force India is Indian/global and so on and so forth.

It's a multinational grid; it just so happens that most of the craftsman have honed their trade in England, England is well developed and most of the goodies are there. This isn't going to change really particularly as the economic climate on the continent is fragile. It's no big deal in of itself.

I'd be surprised if Haas appeared on the grid tbh.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by csirl

I think that's a good description of modern F1

It's nothing to do with logistics.......

.........As I've said many times before, the reason the majority of teams are based in the UK is that since Bernie came to power, the rules have favoured Bernie's former FOCA colleagues. Remember that Bernie first got involved at that level to get the best deal possible for British teams (at the expense of others). Unfortunately he was too good at his job!

You, and probably quite a few others, certainly may perceive that Ecclestone favours the British teams. However, the reality is actually the opposite, and his favoured team, without a shadow of a doubt and there really cannot be any debate about it, is Ferrari and they are, erm, Italian I believe. You may not even be aware that they also receive a larger portion of the financial spoils than any other team, and that even includes the winner of the Constructor's Championship in any year that they don't win it.

Meanwhile, back on the logistics front, the freighters that FOM lay on for the fly-away depart from the UK, which means that Ferrari and Sauber have to transport their cars and equipment to the UK to join up with the rest of the circus, and the same would apply to Haas which would probably require him to charter a freighter to fly their stuff to the UK. Kind of puts them on the back foot, wouldn't you say, especially if the team needed something urgently from the principle facility which is the States. And that is before you factor in simple things such as the time zones.

There is a good reason why most of the computer type business are all located in Silicone Valley, and why most of the F1 teams are all along/near the M4 motorway corridor, and it's not because of the scenery. It means that all of their individual need can be catered for within a relatively close area, which helps with logistics.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by csirl

As I've said many times before, the reason the majority of teams are based in the UK is that since Bernie came to power, the rules have favoured Bernie's former FOCA colleagues. Remember that Bernie first got involved at that level to get the best deal possible for British teams (at the expense of others). Unfortunately he was too good at his job!

I think you will find that a large number / the majority of F1 teams were based in the UK throughout the 60s , 70s and early 80s well before Bernie got his mits on the whole show. It's not like they have appeared here since F1 became the Bernie Empire.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

Judging by the recent quotes by Gene, I can't believe so many are taking his F1 bid so seriously.

The guy sounds utterly clueless!

I highly suspect we'll never see his entry make the grid. Kolles' however, I think will be on next year.

Shame we won't have a 24-26 car grid, though. Cannot see all the current teams sticking around for next year.

Selby

As a business man he's hardly clueless but when it comes to F1 and OWR in general, I would agree and that comes from the very insular nature of many Americans. I would hazzard a guess and say his reason for choosing Dallara, is because that's all he knows regarding OWR chassis manufacturers, because of IndyCar and his choice of Ferrari, as a technical partner will be the same, because that's all he knows about F1.

I would like to see his entry make the grid and I'd like to see it happen without having to buy an existing team, that's failing. Maybe I ask too much?

[Paradise City]

Eccelstone enjoys torturing the Brits if his attitude to the British GP is anything to go by. He goes easy on Ferrari and Monaco because they're good for business.

[321Go]

Haas F1 decides against plans to use a Dallara chassis.

"If it had been 2015 then we wouldn't have had the time to do it, so now with a little more time we can do that ourselves without going to an outside supplier." - Gunther Steiner.


Oh dear.

[steve_r]

Nothing wrong with that plan. The last Dallara chassis to run in F1 didn't exactly set the world alight, did it?

In another interview on Crash.net he mentioned Dancia Patrick as a possible driver, or if not her at least an American to go alongside an experienced F1 driver in the other car. I'm not sure which US drivers would be suitable - no doubt there are some young Indycar hotshots out there that would fit the bill.

He also talks about having a European workshop, but with the team firmly US based.

[Paradise City]

It sounds like he's winging it, it really does. All very light hearted and easy-going stuff.

Will he cut it as the 21st century American answer to Hesketh? No, would be the conventional wisdom.

[Mike Harte]

I am sorry, but this whole adventure seems as though it's being dreamt up on a daily basis, and that there is no one there with a firm grip on the realities of what is required to compete in Formula 1.

He is now going to build a "kit" car with components purchased from other F1 teams, and stuck on a "chassis" that he is going to manufacture himself in the USA, as he now has the extra time 'til the 2016 season.

This, to me, sounds more and more like more money than sense!

[wolfhound]

In some ways the most important part to get right on an F1 car is the aero if it is not up to scratch then you are nowhere. I still believe Haas needs to go on a recruitment drive for some current F1 personel who know how to put a car and team together. Otherwise Haas is destined to spend years at the back of the grid going backwards.

[Cookie85]

The more you hear/read about the more it sounds like he doesn't have a clue what he's doing! At least he hasn't gone with the Dallara chassis

[Kempi]

I wonder where they will produce that chassis. I doubt Haas has the necessary tools, let alone an autoclave, does he?

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Kempi

I wonder where they will produce that chassis. I doubt Haas has the necessary tools, let alone an autoclave, does he?

He could use some of the American aerospace companies Hercules built the first McLaren CF chassis but I suspect things have moved in 30 years. There is of course plenty of chassis builders in the UK.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Kempi

I wonder where they will produce that chassis. I doubt Haas has the necessary tools, let alone an autoclave, does he?

I think that is the least of his issues. Tooling, autoclaves, etc. Just write a check. Some of that he likely has already. But can he move quick enough to staff up, settle on an initial design, get something built and make it to the first race? Its doable, but then he has to field a car that will not run into issues with the 107% rule or be a roving obstacle.

Richard

[mikuni]

Caterham and Marussia must be rubbing their hands together at this prospect! A car that will make them look like a Merc/Red Bull as they overtake them 3s/lap faster.

I'm enjoying the process though. I've not followed F1 closely enough in the past to see the development of a new team and what is potentially involved in this process, even if it does fall over before making it's first GP.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I am sorry, but this whole adventure seems as though it's being dreamt up on a daily basis, and that there is no one there with a firm grip on the realities of what is required to compete in Formula 1.

He is now going to build a "kit" car with components purchased from other F1 teams, and stuck on a "chassis" that he is going to manufacture himself in the USA, as he now has the extra time 'til the 2016 season.

This, to me, sounds more and more like more money than sense!

Is this like building a NASCAR Car of tomorrow...? Get a frame (chassis) buy the bits that go around onto it and massage some bodywork over it, put in the right grille shape and cover it in plastic wrap.... and get your engine (PU) from Hendricks.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Is this like building a NASCAR Car of tomorrow...? Get a frame (chassis) buy the bits that go around onto it and massage some bodywork over it, put in the right grille shape and cover it in plastic wrap.... and get your engine (PU) from Hendricks.

Flip flopping.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Nothing wrong with that plan. The last Dallara chassis to run in F1 didn't exactly set the world alight, did it?

To be fair I don't think that necessarily reflects too badly on Dallara, there was no money for testing or development and the thing only turned a wheel in Melbourne...

[chunterer]

The last Dallara that was half decent was 23 years ago!

However things are different todat and I am fairly sure that given the right money and resourcesDallara could build a good chassis.

[321Go]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Nothing wrong with that plan.

Option A) Build a chassis with someone who has some experience in building F1 chassis'. Option B) Build a chassis yourself with no experience what-so-ever in building a F1 chassis. Which sounds like the better plan??

Yes.. a Dallara chassis is never going to be a world beater, but... by partnering up with Dallara for one year, Haas F1 would have gained valuable knowledge and experience when the times comes to build their own chassis in house. Something is better than nothing as they say.

[321Go]

Living the American Dream, via Formula1.com

Gene Haas: "My guess is that you have to spend three, four or five years at the back - learning the ropes - and that will be our job: to learn to make this thing work. I cannot promise that we can do it, but at the same time the way we do things might change the way other people do them. I think we can do it economically and be successful in doing it. I wouldn’t do it if I thought I might fail."

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Living the American Dream, via Formula1.com

Gene Haas: "My guess is that you have to spend three, four or five years at the back - learning the ropes - and that will be our job: to learn to make this thing work. I cannot promise that we can do it, but at the same time the way we do things might change the way other people do them. I think we can do it economically and be successful in doing it. I wouldn’t do it if I thought I might fail."

I'm sorry, but what a load of round spherical items in the men's trouser department! No team would enter the championship if the were doomed to fail, so the all believed at one time or another that they would succeed.

The dream only fades when a lack of cash exceeds in-extinguished hope!

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Gene Haas: "My guess is that you have to spend three, four or five years at the back - learning the ropes - and that will be our job: to learn to make this thing work. I cannot promise that we can do it, but at the same time the way we do things might change the way other people do them. I think we can do it economically and be successful in doing it. I wouldn’t do it if I thought I might fail."

Scary really, who is going to spend $200m-$500m to run around at the back for 5 years?

Pulled this figure out of my butt, but anybody know what HRT spent to look like an embarrassment, or what Marussia & Caterham have to spend to look reasonable?

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

It sounds like he's winging it, it really does. All very light hearted and easy-going stuff.

Will he cut it as the 21st century American answer to Hesketh? No, would be the conventional wisdom.

Well I think he'll at least make quite a few fans with this approach, I know I'm definitely warming up to them. Hope they don't go with Danica though..

Results is a completely different matter of course.