[Tech Issue] The Sound Of The V6 Turbo PU..

[Andrew2001]

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/f...-gp-2014-03-19



And I rest my case. I have been an F1 nut for years, but 2014 has me absolutely gutted.

[numbersix]

I'm going to watch the British GP with interest. Not the cars, the crowds, most of whom will have seen for themselves what Formula 0.5 has on offer.

As far as I know, the BGP is the only one that receives zero subsidy from goverment. They have to make it pay and that means sponsors and crowds.

I remember in 2008, admittedly at the height of the Hamilton effect, it was standing room only. In 2013, I noticed huge gaps in the crowds, particularly in the Grandstands.

Indeed, on the Saturday, Silverstone announced that the families of Marshals (and I assume other volunteers) could get free tickets to certain grandstands on the Sunday. In their statement it was couched as a "thank you" for all our hard work but more cynical minds quickly figured that half-empty grandstands would not look good on TV. Besides, those seats couldn't have been sold beforehand.

Despite this move, there were nearly-empty grandstands in those areas less covered by TV footage.

If poor old Silverstone had to fill seats with non-paying punters when F1 sounded like F1, not Formula Prius, I wonder what is going to happen this year.

[Tucky]

That video is so depressing. Everyone knows the engine is quieter but listening to the difference really shows how bad it is

[davyboy]

I'd prefer if they sounded like this.

[Andrew2001]

Formula Prius sums it up. I agree with what is being said about crowds at the races. I almost want to see the races struggle this year forcing the prats in $5000 suits around the oval table that govern this and every other damn thing in this world make a a complete u-turn.

This engine regulation re-vamp is the final straw for me. Won't be staying up with excitement waiting for the race (at midnight here in NZ) to start, it just isn't exciting now.

What cracks me up, is (As someone said on the top gear website), is they go to all this effort to save the planet, but make no changes to the dozens and dozens of dirty filthy trucks which transport everything all over the world. What about the air travel?
Such BS.

This, in many ways sums up where the world is heading. Over regulated, red taped utter BS.

[Adam43]

No changes to the dozens of trucks? The trucks that transport them around Europe, at least, are the cleanest you can get. They have been running the latest emission regulations years before the legislation backed that up. On top they normally have all option extra fuel saving and emission extras. These trucks get over 10mpg pulling 44t. Euro 6 regs have incredibly low NOx and particulate emissions too and the R&D that has gone into that makes F1 budgets look tiny. Dirty filthy trucks?

To realistically get any lower means staying at home. The noise from the race cars is really poor then.

I'll let someone else talk about the current state of air travel. I wouldn't presume to dismiss it as I don't know the details.

The point is not that the F1 circus pollutes. I believe it has been carbon neutral or better for years. The point is that it matches the automotive industries push towards clearer cars.

The point of the thread though is about the sound. Which I agree is important. I go to historic events, partly for the noise (and smell). I'll repeat my previous opinion. It's better than those tedious V8s. It's not true to say they were all the same. The Mercedes had a shrill about them and the later year Renaults interesting 'off' throttle. However now they are much more interesting, more variation, more interesting and they sound decent. Loud enough on my telly too.

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by Andrew2001

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/f...-gp-2014-03-19



And I rest my case. I have been an F1 nut for years, but 2014 has me absolutely gutted.

I maintain that a straight line comparison isn't fair on the new engines because they are so interesting in the corners, but are quiet so not as impressive down the straights.

But, that video actually favours the new cars I think. You can hear the differences between them as they go past, and sure they aren't that loud, but the V8's in that video is just LOUD noise. Nothing interesting about it.

It is a contentious issue and it will be at least for this season, but I think it is more likely to turn off the casual viewer than they true motorsport fan. A lot of the people complaining didn't seem to watch F1 much if at all anyway, so there really isn't much net loss. A lot of people seem to want it to go back to V10's too, which would be cool but not exactly pushing the boundaries of technological development.

[maximus]

Newsflash to some people on here, as modern racing engines get more efficient, the noise will get quieter. This isn't unique to F1 either, so I'm afraid those of you "depressed" by it had better get used to it. The days of screaming V12s are over, never to return.

I'll go to classic meets to experience the engine sounds and smells as they used to be (which I love) but have accepted we need to move on and embrace new technologies, this is 2014 not 1995!

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by maximus

Newsflash to some people on here, as modern racing engines get more efficient, the noise will get quieter. This isn't unique to F1 either, so I'm afraid those of you "depressed" by it had better get used to it. The days of screaming V12s are over, never to return.

I'll go to classic meets to experience the engine sounds and smells as they used to be (which I love) but have accepted we need to move on and embrace new technologies, this is 2014 not 1995!

I think most people, including me, realize this. But at least for me my interest in motorsport is above all emotional and not rational, hence difficulties to accept changes that diminishes the experience.

Not talking about sound or even F1 in particular here but racing in general. Engine regs, going to tracks where there's money but no heritage, double points, the spec series epidemic.. A lot of it (not all) makes logical sense but does noting for me as a fan except making it less interesting.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by maximus

I'll go to classic meets to experience the engine sounds and smells as they used to be (which I love) but have accepted we need to move on and embrace new technologies, this is 2014 not 1995!

I only experienced the Can-Am (Group 7) cars through print, but when I see them at a vintage meet they make me laugh. Completely outrageous sound!

I enjoy variety. If the rules were open enough Ferrari could run their V-12's and somebody else could run an I-4, as long as both could meet the fuel consumption target. That would be even more fun. Truth is, Ferrari probably couldn't meet the fuel consumption target with a V-12 and the field would be mostly four bangers and some V-6's, but at least teams could choose.

And the sounds would be even more varied than they are now.

In any case, it's nice the new cars are about as fast as the old but have less impact on the neighbors.

[321Go]

And to think they were to be electric powered only in Pitlane this year. Can you imagine how much more the whinging would have been!?

[Smurfer]

Originally Posted by Mr Pink

I think most people, including me, realize this. But at least for me my interest in motorsport is above all emotional and not rational, hence difficulties to accept changes that diminishes the experience.

Not talking about sound or even F1 in particular here but racing in general. Engine regs, going to tracks where there's money but no heritage, double points, the spec series epidemic.. A lot of it (not all) makes logical sense but does noting for me as a fan except making it less interesting.

I totally agree with your point about it being important in terms of raising emotions. I attended a few of the V10 era races as well as the V8's and the hairs on the back of my neck stood on end when I heard them fire up from the other side of the circuit.

There is/was something in my brain that made me think of these cars as beasts and the driver was brave driving such a car (until I heard Kimi on the radio sounding like he's half asleep and barely interested). I still think they are very brave though no doubt the illogical side of my brain associated the volume with the level of bravity.

I'm yet to hear the new engines so I may end up preferring the volume and sound. I think they will need to sound quite unique and somehow give the impression of leading edge technology for me to prefer the new breed.

I'm not that tech savy though acknowledge that these engines are far more advanced than the previous V8 though is that enough to evoke emotion. Are my emotions raised when thinking about the technology in the latest smart phone? Are my emotions raised when I see an almost silent bullet train doing over 400km/h? Unfortunately not, though we are all different so maybe the new cars will attract some additional watchers (possibly those who line up for days at the local Apple store for the next iphone).

If the new cars produce great racing and continue to produce lap times that exceed that of any other racing series then I think that will be a good thing.

[VIVA GT]

I like my motorsport to be spectacular, and agree that the sound of the cars is part of that spectacle.
(My distinction: Sound = something that is pleasurable, noise = something that is not pleasureable - maybe because the word sounds like part of "annoyance").
I'm in my late 50's now and have been a fan of, and involved in motorsport for a lot of that time. My hearing isn't as sharp nowadays as it was, and I'm sure that spending a lot of time around noisy racing engines hasn't helped.
I do agree however that the different sounds of different types (and ages) of racing engines are very interesting, and part of what draws (and has drawn) me to the sport over the years.
So, back to the subject in hand. The new PU's do emit less noise, which for some people has reduced the spectacle, but I believe there are other new aspects that more than compensate for that:
Along with the reduction of noise, the new PU's can also produce significantly more torque, and often very suddenly. I personally find watching the drivers coping with and trying to control this hugely spectacular.
The reduction of engine noise has also enabled us to hear other sounds from the cars such as tyre squeal during a lock up under braking for example, another spectacular sound.
I would also think that due to the reduced noise, spectators at the circuit will now be able to hear the race commentary which will help them understand (especially the more casual and not so well informed spectators) what is going on in the race. Surely this has to be better for everyone and especially better for the sport as more casual spectators may feel more inclined to come back again?
Instead of just focusing on one aspect, I think we should view the overall picture, which to me shows a great improvement.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by maximus

Newsflash to some people on here, as modern racing engines get more efficient, the noise will get quieter. This isn't unique to F1 either, so I'm afraid those of you "depressed" by it had better get used to it. The days of screaming V12s are over, never to return.

I'll go to classic meets to experience the engine sounds and smells as they used to be (which I love) but have accepted we need to move on and embrace new technologies, this is 2014 not 1995!

I'm cool about embracing new technologies but there's nothing new about F1 2014... other than it being new to F1. Formula One is 'following the lead set by the road car industry' in terms of fuel efficiency but despite spending gazillions can still only manage to get a single person vehicle to do 8mpg... So it has a bit of a way to go yet in catching up !

F1 is first and foremost an entertainment show. Nobody cares about the incomprehensible and irrelevant technology. Let's see if what they've done this year leads to increased viewing figures. If not, the days of F1 itself may be numbered... never to return

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by davyboy

I'm cool about embracing new technologies but there's nothing new about F1 2014... other than it being new to F1. Formula One is 'following the lead set by the road car industry' in terms of fuel efficiency but despite spending gazillions can still only manage to get a single person vehicle to do 8mpg... So it has a bit of a way to go yet in catching up !

I must be missing something because I'm not aware of any road car running a motor generator off the turbo and also using it for anti-lag by keeping the turbo spun up all the time. This is technology that certainly could be massive for road cars and I'd be intrigued to see a list of the road cars currently running it.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

I must be missing something because I'm not aware of any road car running a motor generator off the turbo and also using it for anti-lag by keeping the turbo spun up all the time. This is technology that certainly could be massive for road cars and I'd be intrigued to see a list of the road cars currently running it.

It's a hybrid electric petrol engine that does 8mpg.

[Kempi]

Where do you get the 8mpg from? And more importantly: according to the standard test or according to race conditions?

If it is race conditions, it probably is pretty impressive, actually. Let's put a Prius on the track and see the mpg if it is driven fully all the time.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Kempi

Where do you get the 8mpg from? And more importantly: according to the standard test or according to race conditions?

If it is race conditions, it probably is pretty impressive, actually. Let's put a Prius on the track and see the mpg if it is driven fully all the time.

Race conditions.

8mpg is an impressive figure ? For something less than half the weight of a Prius. Try explaining that to Joe Bloggs...

You see you have to tell him that it's being driven aggressively around a track at up to 200mph and has the aero efficiency of a barn door which bears no relevance to his 30mph trip to the supermarket. Why ? Because that's what its designed to do.

...anyway, we're straying off topic here [partly my fault I know]... but let me hand you back to the sound discussion.

[Adam43]

This particular Joe Bloggs is clever enough to realise the weight of the car has an impact, but not that the speed and drag does.

I know your trying to graft an argument to match your point of view, but with Joe Bloggs I suspect you either have a Joe who can quite easily grasp the concept of efficiency being use to get good mileage or go fast and realised it is related. Or you get a Joe Bloggs who doesn't care either way. Neither are then bothered about the Prius point.

I do agree that we have a population that isn't keeping pace with the world.

Based on 100kg limit, density of petrol and 200mile races it's probably more like 7mpg.

I wonder if Joe understands that the noises part is energy that isn't making the car go forward and is inefficient.

They sound fine.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Adam43

They sound fine.

Glad you're happy with the sound.

[Adam43]

davyboy, I've just read my post again and the graft argument bit sounded (pun intended) a little off. Sorry about that wasn't really what I intended.

I was just trying to say I suspect we worry too much and talk too much about casual fan. They either don't have the knowledge to worry about such things or don't care. It is normally the fans that worry too much

I'm glad you like my trying to get it back on topic.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Adam43

davyboy, I've just read my post again and the graft argument bit sounded (pun intended) a little off. Sorry about that wasn't really what I intended.

I was just trying to say I suspect we worry too much and talk too much about casual fan. They either don't have the knowledge to worry about such things or don't care. It is normally the fans that worry too much

I'm glad you like my trying to get it back on topic.

No problem... it's all just a bit of fun anyway

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by davyboy

It's a hybrid electric petrol engine that does 8mpg.

Shame I was hoping you were going to tell me where this "old hat" technology was used in road cars. I'd genuinely like to know if it is as it is certainly very different to Prius technology, just because both have a battery doesn't make them equivalent.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

Shame I was hoping you were going to tell me where this "old hat" technology was used in road cars. I'd genuinely like to know if it is as it is certainly very different to Prius technology, just because both have a battery doesn't make them equivalent.

McLaren P1?

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

Shame I was hoping you were going to tell me where this "old hat" technology was used in road cars. I'd genuinely like to know if it is as it is certainly very different to Prius technology, just because both have a battery doesn't make them equivalent.

The Prius just uses a different flavor of the same fundamental hybrid electric petrol. There are others as well. The concept came to F1 very late in the day. Another thing... do we really think that the auto industry waits for the FIA to dream up some new F1 regulations before it can advance its road technology ? Are we now going to see a rush of manufacturers developing 1.6L V6 petrol turbo engines - complete with this flavor of hybrid - for their shopping trolleys ?

... sorry I did try to get back to the topic... of noise.