Group B MG Metro 6R4 History

[schanche]

Originally Posted by KA

Found a few more 6R4 pics:

First up, another Lydden rallycross shot- one of the cars I've been looking for, Aidan Creegans 'Creegan Properties' car, pointing in a slightly odd direction at Lydden- I'm guessing recovering from a spin?

I think Creegans car was also sometimes seen with 'Bank of Ireland' sponsorship?

IIRC Creegan's Metro was the ex-Brian Bell C84RBD (the third car to carry that plate, not the original DRA/Rothmans car)

Can't quite make it out for sure from this pic, but did it still have part of the red/dark blue/light blue stripes of Bell's 'Bell Leisure/Funland Skegness' colourscheme in Creegan's ownership? I've got a vague memory of it at least having the stripe over the roof

Looks like Aidan is recovering from a spin possibly just after the chicane at Lydden! Still see him spectating now, the days when we had Aidan, Maloney and Carnegie Biggerstaff ahh good times, I think Aidan eventually retired after a big off in Rallycross.

[schanche]

Originally Posted by Gloves

I think this is it....

Stunning set of pics! That solves the debut issue for Will and the 6r4.

Always loved Arthur's comment about Will at Lydden, driving around the hairpin with one hand of the the wheel! ( G-Force from G-Tech ) Legends both

[chunterer]

Was this debut late '86 or early '87?

Feel bit sorry for the cars around him in this pic..... they were decent options until the Group B explosion!!

[chunder]

This was probably Will's debut in the Metro I would imagine so late 86. I'm not sure MG or Rover ever had any involvement in rallycross with Will or anyone else. I think they were just happy to get rid of them and have a market for the spares and stuff. Will developed the car himself and obviously Cliff and Goodmans did most of the engines for 6R4's, and the MEtro was far, far more of a succes in rallycross than it ever was against GpB cars in rallying. With Norwegian Dagfin Larsen developing his own BiTurbo engines, a 2.3 and a 2.8, this obviously made Will realise that was the way to go (rather than 3.5 or 3.8 hi torque as Goodmans did) and he and Cliff developed their own version. The Larsen cars were also successful though and with the same level of development as Will's could have been just as successful I think.

He was running it in white at the Rallycross GP with some sponsors, and a load of Scandys picked up RS200's at the same time, Schanche, Nilsson, Holm, maybe even Rantanen?? Ford though did get involved in the rallycross programme, building their own car that Stig and Palmer both ran. they were also obviously selling tons of bits in rallycross for both the RS2 and 500, hence their interest. Peugeot too had a presence in French rallycross with the T16, and therefore selling bits to Matti and Schie.

How on earth Rennison got his before all this I dont know, must have cost them a fortune!!

[schanche]

Originally Posted by chunder

This was probably Will's debut in teh MEtro I would imagine so 86.

He was running it in white at the GP with some sponsors, and a load of Scanys picked up RS200's at the same time, Schanche, Nilsson, Holm, maybe even Rantanen??

How on earth Rennison got his before all this I dont know, must have cost them a fortune!!

DSRM paid a fortune I believe, recognised Marks Talent and just how advance the RS was.

[schanche]

Originally Posted by schanche

Looks like Aidan is recovering from a spin possibly just after the chicane at Lydden! Still see him spectating now, the days when we had Aidan, Maloney and Carnegie Biggerstaff ahh good times, I think Aidan eventually retired after a big off in Rallycross.

Thinking about now Aidan's big off was at Lydden in the the new Group N class in a Nissan Sunny. I know his son dabbled for a bit in Rallycross.
But this isn't 6r4 stuff now is it and David no doubt is watching

[KA]

Originally Posted by schanche

Looks like Aidan is recovering from a spin possibly just after the chicane at Lydden!

That sounds about right- that was one of my regular spots for photography when I went to Lydden regularly

Originally Posted by chunder

This was probably Will's debut in the Metro I would imagine so late 86.

Lydden Winterseries round in November 1986 according to David earlier in the thread

[Thundersports]

Aidan also had a big one at the GP in about 1991? Rolling the 6R4 at the end of the knife edge.

[MetroGaz]

Well, Hi to this forum on the Metro 6R4.

I have only recently spotted this forum and have enjoyed reading all 24 pages over several times. What is clear to me is what excellent and knowledgeable folk you all are and you all deserve full credit for your comments.

Perhaps I am far too late into this historic car and it seems to be quickly vanishing from view and as posts stopped around Feb 2013 here it may be a sign of the times indeed.

Suppose modern technology and regulations have overtaken what was seen as an extraordinary car in the mid 80's - my era and when the odd 200 or so 6R4's were being sold off, that was the size of my mortgage on my house and three times my annual salary!

However no one has said we can't have dreams here, so I have not given up on one day getting hold of one.

Out of interest, where could i now go to see a few of these beasts, static or otherwise?

Saw one with the Reg E562 TOF if anyone fancies an update with some history of this car to re-kindle the thread?

[Neil Duke]

Originally Posted by MetroGaz

Well, Hi to this forum on the Metro 6R4.

I have only recently spotted this forum and have enjoyed reading all 24 pages over several times. What is clear to me is what excellent and knowledgeable folk you all are and you all deserve full credit for your comments.

Perhaps I am far too late into this historic car and it seems to be quickly vanishing from view and as posts stopped around Feb 2013 here it may be a sign of the times indeed.

Suppose modern technology and regulations have overtaken what was seen as an extraordinary car in the mid 80's - my era and when the odd 200 or so 6R4's were being sold off, that was the size of my mortgage on my house and three times my annual salary!

However no one has said we can't have dreams here, so I have not given up on one day getting hold of one.

Out of interest, where could i now go to see a few of these beasts, static or otherwise?

Saw one with the Reg E562 TOF if anyone fancies an update with some history of this car to re-kindle the thread?

There was one on display at Prodrive,if you do the tour they will tell you all about the Prodrive involvement in the programme.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by MetroGaz

Out of interest, where could i now go to see a few of these beasts, static or otherwise?

There is one that competes in Retro Rallycross events - and there will be more group B cars doing demo laps at Lydden in May as part of the world rallycross meeting. I'd expect 6R4, RS200, Audi Quattro at least on track (with 205 T16, Delta S4 static). It's worth keeping an eye on the website to see if they give details of which cars will be running - if Lawrence Gibson is there that's all the 6R4 you'll need.

6R4s will turn up wherever the 'slowly sideways' (or whatever the current incarnation is called) meet - so things like Race Retro, Rallyday, Festival of Speed. Usually these are doing demo runs and the cars are in 'works' liveries.

There are also 6R4s that compete on stage rallies still at various levels (there was one at the Brands Hatch rally in January for example). There are also 6R4s competing in various hillclimbs, sprints and there was (is?) one competing in Time Attack. So they are still out there and active - you just have to scan entry lists to track them down!

[andy97]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

6R4s will turn up wherever the 'slowly sideways' (or whatever the current incarnation is called) meet - so things like Race Retro, Rallyday, Festival of Speed. Usually these are doing demo runs and the cars are in 'works' liveries.

I think the UK contingent have split from "Slowly Sideway" - don't know why, but have a look at "Rallying with Group B" http://www.rallyingwithgroupb.net/

and you should find a list of events they attend and demo. I think they are at the Donington Historic Festival and the Oulton Park Gold Cup meeting amongst others.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by andy97

I think the UK contingent have split from "Slowly Sideway" - don't know why, but have a look at "Rallying with Group B" http://www.rallyingwithgroupb.net/

and you should find a list of events they attend and demo. I think they are at the Donington Historic Festival and the Oulton Park Gold Cup meeting amongst others.

Thanks Andy - I knew there was something that had happened with the slowly sideways mob.

[VIVA GT]

I'd be interested to learn what exactly Prodrive's involvement was in the 6R4 development. From what I remember, Dave Richards Motorsport ran a couple of Rothmans sponsored 6R4's, but that wasn't Prodrive...

[Neil Duke]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I'd be interested to learn what exactly Prodrive's involvement was in the 6R4 development. From what I remember, Dave Richards Motorsport ran a couple of Rothmans sponsored 6R4's, but that wasn't Prodrive...

Sorry if my post is inaccurate,but,on a tour of the Prodrive factory we were told that they had involvement in the development programme,& there was a beautiful 6R4 on display.If the work was by Dave Richards,not Prodrive,they didnt differentiate between the two.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Neil Duke

Sorry if my post is inaccurate,but,on a tour of the Prodrive factory we were told that they had involvement in the development programme,& there was a beautiful 6R4 on display.If the work was by Dave Richards,not Prodrive,they didnt differentiate between the two.

Thanks Neil. Please don't think that I was doubting you, I was more doubting Prodrive's claims! If they really did have a genuine involvement in the development of the car (as opposed to essentially running them during the early stages and being involved in the evolution of some parts) I would be interested to know what they did.
Prodrive have become an extremely big, and well experienced company, but I know that there was a bit of 'smoke and mirrors' involved in their claims from the early days!

[davyboy]

Here's one that's come up for sale in Italy. Is it an original CV [works] car... or just bedecked in the livery I wonder.

[KA]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I'd be interested to learn what exactly Prodrive's involvement was in the 6R4 development. From what I remember, Dave Richards Motorsport ran a couple of Rothmans sponsored 6R4's, but that wasn't Prodrive...

When did Dave Richards Motorsport (Autosport?) actually become Prodrive? From memory, the Rothmans 911s in 84/85 were 'DRM', but it was definitely Prodrive by the time they moved onto BMW M3s in '87

Prodrive's website is claiming this year as their 30th anniversary, 1984-2014.

Looking at pics of the McRae 6R4 in period, I don't see any obvious 'Prodrive' logos on it (but is that a DRM/DRA logo on the front wing, just ahead of the door in the first pic?)

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5175/5...78d7ec6a_o.jpg

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1422/1...8791bef1_o.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y10...orteIngles.jpg

[chunterer]

I always thought 'Prodrive' only commenced in 1987 in conjunction with the BMW touring car and rally programmes?

[GORDON STREETER]

I thought it was set up in 84 by Parry and Richards with Porsche money for the Rothmans Rally Team, a search of company directors may confirm it.

[GORDON STREETER]

Done a bit of searching and found this in a book by Jeremy Walton.

[gpstratos]

Hi everybody, I am looking for fotos and/or information (results, etc.) on the Metro 6R4 regsitered Q-367-PDE owned/driven by John Green (1986 and 1987), Geoff Thomas, Geoff Underhill, Lorenzo Roady Garcia (?) and Hannu Ruohorinne. I appreciate your help! Thanks!

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

220 6R4s for sure - 200 Clubman + 10% (20) International variants.

So that's 501 V64V engines then by my count plus an unknown quantity of spares. I cannot really see Austin Rover making enough to get up to your magical 1000 figure though Mike, but I will let you know when I hear back from my friend.

Here's one for you based on FACT! Its been 30 years now so maybe the truth can out. 200 Clubmans were built and shown to shown to FISA in 70 car batches for the first 2 inspections plus the final 60 + 20 evo cars. The inspections were carried out by a Guy from Renault Sport. The evo cars included the works cars previously built prior to the 200 build - 3 from memory plus 17 clubmans from the first inspection converted to evo. Later a car for Will Gollop was built by Will from parts and did not have a works chassis number as far as is known. It is a moot point when the 200 cars were actually completed - some say that the base cars were presented prior to the 1984 RAC to get the Homologation and finished off as complete cars a while later. 200 V64V motors were assembled for clubmans cars the works evo units were built at Cowley by Cliff Humphries.

[Tel 911S]

Been meaning to put this one up for some time . Langer Park Service Station car .This one taken on the Breckland Rally 1991 [ I think ].
Used the Thetford forests & Snetterton as a service area , with 2 [ ? ] stages on the Snetterton circuit .

This car was also hired out to Tim Harvey for the Birmingham " Superprix " , where I think he retired it with an engine problem .

[spoton]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Many thanks for eventually loading the Steve Palmer images KA - I'll come back on them shortly if that's OK?

Looking forward to seeing what else the photographer has on file DFP, especially if he can confirm which other team car was used on that day.

Having confirmed that you sold your shell to Murray also confirms the fact that my thoughts were indeed correct about your identity. To fill you in a little more, my name is David Sims, and since 1984 I've been trying to compile a record of each 6R4 built.

In the late 1980s I certainly rang around quite a few owners, teams, etc for information. I also usually followed up every press advert for a car or shell For Sale to find out the ID, where it came from, and history, the individual's plans, and later who it was sold to - maybe that is when I spoke to you DFP?

If I remember right - I'm at work! - wasn't your rolling shell also used in the RRS Racewear adverts at the time? Looked excellent draped in models in crisp new overalls - even though the 'trained eye' could tell it was a little high due to the lack of the V64V in the back!

I later went on to produce the 6R4 Owners Club newsletter, write a 6R4 Register column for the MGCC magazine Safety Fast, and then produced my own 6R4 dedicated newsletter entitled 6R4news.

I'm sure we've spoken before...

Sorry to dig up an old post. I am a big rallycross fan, and attended most rallycross gp's, lydden winter, British and European rounds. I was a Steve palmer fan, and for a short while involved in the short lived supporters club. What was the history around Steve's 6r4? I'm pretty sure it was a rothmans car of some sort, as it man in rothmans livery for a few events when Steve first ran the car.