2011 Bathurst 12 Hour

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Sheep Stations

maybe possible on a cool down lap...Bairdo will be sub 2.10 in Quinns GT3 R by a long way.

Class B GT3 will be better than 2.15's, (Russell, Kingsley)

Alex Davison in 2006 was 2.10 or near enough in CC qual.

Are we getting soft or hard Michelins for this?

It would be funny if someone could squeeze a '6' out of one of these?

[ff s conscience]

you gotta remember parity again...

2010 spec cars will have greater parity applied than earlier cars...

Not only in pure lap speed/time, (restrictors/weight etc) but in the race the 2010 cars have to make more compulsoty stops also, with minimum 10 laps between them (you can stop whenever but they won't count if less than 10 laps apart)...

we worked it all out for running teds 2010 Gallardo, and it seemed to be a bit heavy, which was one of the reasons we pulled that car out.

So, running a 2006 430 GT3 is a much smarter move, speed wise....

we have free choice of tyre compounds, and pit stops frequency suit our strategy windows ok.

I still think Bairdo and the Quinns, and the Joest cars will take some beating... but it's a LONG LONG LONG race...........

[DAVID PATERSON]

Does anybody think an Evo could still win?

[Wood-duck]

Originally Posted by pplater

I must say I’m a little disappointed at some of the sentiments in here. What do you guys want to see?

My perfect race meet is something like Le Mans, with a selection of the world’s best drivers (McNish, Kristensen, Sarrazin, Bourdais, Brabham etc) driving an array of high-powered exotic machinery for at least one lap of the clock.

I’ve been to all the post-2000 12 and 24 hour races at Bathurst, several Procar / Shannons / GT rounds, the Grand Prix and more V8 Supercar meetings than I care to count and must say that GT cars at the the Bathurst 24 hour events presented the most intoxicating motorsport spectacle I’ve witnessed.

The driving standard brought by the category -along with exhaust flames, searing exhaust notes, and difference in engineering approaches- are yet to be topped by anything I’ve seen before or since. Seriously.

What I wouldn’t give to see John Bowe flogging that black 360GT after a 1am engine change back in 2002. I was on top of the mountain at the time, and can still remember hearing that awesome machine scorch through Reid Park before its XXL driving lights popped over the crest to Sulman and McPhillamy. Spine, chilled.

I honestly think YeeHah are doing their best to make a go of the 12 hour, and are trying to make it the best spectacle possible. No, the proddy crowd doesn’t like it. Yes, they deserve their own marquee event.

But in my opinion the allure of exotic machinery at one of the world’s best racetracks is likely to give me the race I want to see (elite drivers in elite cars at Mount Panorama) and is a very exciting prospect for 2011 and beyond.

This year’s race is set to be a cracker, and is close to what my perfect event would be. You’ve got some of the best drivers around (Lowndes, Owen, Simonsen) in spectacular machines with six, eight, ten and twelve cylinders.

If you’re not thrilled by the prospect of those guys going hammer and tongs at Mount Panorama, hand over your enthusiast card because IMO this is the best thing going in 2011.

Well.. that's great, but the 12 hour doesnt run at 1am, and they will have little to no running in the dark in february....

Here is a thought - why didnt the GT guys go and organise their own 24 hour race ? Instead of hi-jacking another category to do so ? The FOSC meeting would have been perfect with a strong support mix of sports cars for the supporting events. I am sure now that Yeeyah have the claim of both, it could have been done.

I dont think 2 x 12 hour races at each are the way to go, it will blur the lines as to what is what.

The problem with the 12 hour as it was in production car spec, was that there wasnt really a bona-fide series that those cars could otherwise run in. Yes, we had shannons nationals.. but lets be honest, that isnt got to pump the category up sufficently to attract some dealer and manufacturer interest.

When we had the old GT performance/performance car championship running around it may have been different, as it did put the cars on the bill at the supercar rounds in front of decent crowds at larger scale events (such as Adelaide etc).

To expect manufacturers and teams to build a car for essentially one race per year wasnt ever really going to work in drawing widespread manufacturer support, even back-door support from privateers...

Now with a new direction for the category, this may change. The rules have been revised to bring the EVO's back to the pack (where they always should have been) and the event in 2010 was a great race, despite the weather.

I am not dissing on GT racing. I can see why people are pumped up about it. But... given the discussions about the cost of running a GT car for 12 hours - I am sure guys like ff s cons and co can add comment... it throws the event out of the reach of a lot of people. If you run them for 12 you might as well run them for 24... and get that night running etc... and easter would be the time to do it at the FOSC.. leave the 12 hour for the prods as it always has been and everyone is happy.

The only problem I forsee is that this then reduces the "grid filling option" for production cars at the "24hr" which means that GT and challenge cars will have to fill the grid in their own right... if GT racing is so good, then this shouldnt be a problem...

Old Tony's post about the importance of sponsorship flow for the production car guys, and the sellability of being in the outright class was superb - hit the nail right on the head. You saw guys like Damian White get sponsorship last year from Pedigree... i doubt he would be able to do that sort of deal if he was running for a class win 20+ seconds off the pace.. probably why they are not there this year... It has nothing to do with people cracking a wobbly.

[T-star]

GT3 Cup S = built to FIA GT3 spec for GT racing (eg. Australian GT)
GT3 R = built to FIA GT3 spec, newer than the S.


Thanks Rik - so in theory the Quinn Porsche will be quicker than the other Porsches...except for the whole pit stop thing...

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

Does anybody think an Evo could still win?

Last man standing?

I would respectfully suggest that the 3 pilots in the #43 Easts car are not as quick as the TMR trio in Mr Salmon's car of last year, or indeed the#43 car's 3previous pilots

Class prediction time?
Class A - Fight between the 2 Audis, Quinn Porsche, Wall Porsche & Koundouris Porsche. Likely an Audi win, but possibly the 2nd one

Class B - Unless something happens to the car mechanically, or one of the pilots gets over excited, the Lago Porsche would be hard to beat

Class C - If Mr Freestone's Corvette can last, it should be like the Monaro, chug chug chugging away to the finish

Class D - The BMW has a good history having won twice outright, but the Subaru and Mitsubishi will fight to the death, if it lasts Mr Herridge's WRX may surprise here.

Class E - Presuming it actually starts, the McLeod Astra has a good pedigree for pace and reliability in recent times, would be hard to toss.

Not long now..

[Reload]

No doubt that the Audi's coming over for this event is a major attraction, however can someone explain to me what are they standing to gain by competing in the 12 hour as i am presuming that their cars will not be advertising local businesses/companies and the prize money is ordinary to say the least ?

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Reload

No doubt that the Audi's coming over for this event is a major attraction, however can someone explain to me what are they standing to gain by competing in the 12 hour as i am presuming that their cars will not be advertising local businesses/companies and the prize money is ordinary to say the least ?

Perhaps the organisers are footing the bill?

[Oldtony]

Possibly a lot of Australians are not quite switched on to the fact that with the A$ the way it is, the strength of the local economy and the locals enjoying their motoring, this is one of the strongest markets for upmarket vehicles in the world.
VAG are obviously looking at the strong Mercedes, Lexus and BMW sales here and want a slice of that action.
An Audi win at Bathurst would be just as useful in selling A3s, A4s, TTs etc as it is in selling R8s. And the extra dealer traffic might rub off on VW and Skoda as well.
Smart move by Audi for mine.
Pity there was no interest in entering an A4 Tdi quattro a couple of years back!

[GTRMagic]

Can we have one (or more) of these too please?

[Reload]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Can we have one (or more) of these too please?

Wow, never thought that a black Falcon could look so good

[Oldtony]

They race those in places that have even richer car nuts. Like the Gulf!!!!
Couldn't catch the BMWs at Dubai though.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Wood-duck

Well.. that's great, but the 12 hour doesnt run at 1am, and they will have little to no running in the dark in february....

GT cars are also fairly impressive in daylight wood duck. You should check them out.

Originally Posted by Wood-duck

Here is a thought - why didnt the GT guys go and organise their own 24 hour race ? Instead of hi-jacking another category to do so ?

The B12hr promoter invited the GT class to their event - by no means was it a hostile takeover or hi jacking by the GT guys.

Originally Posted by Wood-duck

When we had the old GT performance/performance car championship running around it may have been different, as it did put the cars on the bill at the supercar rounds in front of decent crowds at larger scale events (such as Adelaide etc).

I think it was either 2006 or 2008 when the Performance Car class was last on the v8 bill and they had 10 & 12 car grids so I am not sure it is the master stroke you suggest.

Originally Posted by Wood-duck

I am not dissing on GT racing. I can see why people are pumped up about it. But... given the discussions about the cost of running a GT car for 12 hours - I am sure guys like ff s cons and co can add comment... it throws the event out of the reach of a lot of people.

They guys in the GT class are all privateers who majoritly self fund their teams. Im sure the event is out of reach for some competitors - the same for all endurance racing. However the number of cars and drivers from the GT championship is encouraging. If we can open peoples eyes and get the carrera cup competitors allowed in as well this can only help.

Originally Posted by Wood-duck

If you run them for 12 you might as well run them for 24... and get that night running etc... and easter would be the time to do it at the FOSC.. leave the 12 hour for the prods as it always has been and everyone is happy.

The issue is that not everyone was happy wooduck - in this case the promoter felt that for the event to continue it needed more public interest and exposure than what they were getting.

[EfiOz]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Can we have one (or more) of these too please?

Patience. ;-)

[Wood-duck]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

GT cars are also fairly impressive in daylight wood duck. You should check them out.

True. I could be rude and suggest this is primarily because they are crashing into each other quite spectacularly... but i see your point DRT. The cars are impressive.

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

The B12hr promoter invited the GT class to their event - by no means was it a hostile takeover or hi jacking by the GT guys.

Hmmmmmmm...... that is not the way i heard it....

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

I think it was either 2006 or 2008 when the Performance Car class was last on the v8 bill and they had 10 & 12 car grids so I am not sure it is the master stroke you suggest.

The last year of Performance car was 2007... and at that stage the rule book differed somewhat from the 12 hour rules which was introduced in 2007, such as slick tyres. If the rules had been aligned closer it may have benefitted.

Still, at the 1000 support event in 2007, the Performance car field attracted 27 cars. Imagine how this would have swelled both the performance car and the 12 hour grids had this series continued with a 'common' rulebook ?

Going back further into GT production, the 2004 Adelaide 500 supports got 30 cars.. so production cars can get big grids - all this without the 12 hour bedded down...which would only add to the incentive of building and racing one of these cars.

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

They guys in the GT class are all privateers who majoritly self fund their teams. Im sure the event is out of reach for some competitors - the same for all endurance racing. However the number of cars and drivers from the GT championship is encouraging. If we can open peoples eyes and get the carrera cup competitors allowed in as well this can only help.

The number of cars and drivers from the GT championship is encouraging ? How ? I would say the opposite..

The GT field had 27 cars at the 1000 support races in 2010.

The 12 hour entry has 28 - which have been bolstered by 8 production cars and 6 Porsche GT3 challenge cars, plus a couple (2) of one-off races for some GT4's...

Plus.. 3 "international" GT3 entries ( the 2 x Audis and the Lester Ferrari) and you could call the Bowe entry a "one-off"...

So that is 19-20 out of 28 which I wouldnt consider "GT" regulars. Pretty poor effort I would say. Especially when 27 bona-fide GT3/4 cars fronted for the 1000 in October, just a few months ago.... and I note none of the Lamborgini's bothered to enter...that is a massive let down.

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

The issue is that not everyone was happy wooduck - in this case the promoter felt that for the event to continue it needed more public interest and exposure than what they were getting.

I agree, the event needed more.. but it's growth was ok - it was actually growing. The public interest may have increased with a bona-fide series built in behind it, running at larger domestic events, so the racing public got a feel for what the class was about. With the rules revised to make the EVO less dominant, it was an exciting time..

To a lesser extent, it was also an exposure issue - for instance the event would have boomed with live TV.. even only say, 4 hours live.. look at the 12 hour in 91-94.. that had live/same day TV... and it grew year on year and had widespread manufacturer support. In contrast the 24 hour had same day TV and it didnt go anywhere...

To have John Bowe come out and commend the event last year was a highlight, and that it was great in concept - just needed more pushing from within the motoring industry.

I dont see GT racing as a great massiah to solve this problem. I cant see punters rocking up in droves to see 9 geninue GT3 cars buzz around..and with the Gt3 cars in place there is ZERO incentive for any mainstream manufacturer to be involved.

[ff s conscience]

Originally Posted by EfiOz

Patience. ;-)

I think there's one here already??

Wasn't there one at Motorclassica recently? Lindsay Fox has one for his collection I think. ??

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by ff s conscience

I think there's one here already??

Wasn't there one at Motorclassica recently? Lindsay Fox has one for his collection I think. ??

I have seen a couple of road cars, but not a GT3 spec AMG racetrack version...

[davo.]

Do you also realise that there are only three cars in the race that don't either have one-two drivers who have driven in the past 12 hours or who have entered a car in the previous 12 hours

- Audi R8 (overseas entrants)
- Porsche 997 (Racing dynamics)
- Lotus Exige (Simply Sports Cars)

So there is every good chance that most of these drivers or teams would have raced in a 2011 production styled 12 hour race.

The race has only attracted Lowndes, Fiore and Reynolds + Audi overseas drivers, all the other star drivers have raced in the previous events.

[Green Hornet]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

The issue is that not everyone was happy wooduck - in this case the promoter felt that for the event to continue it needed more public interest and exposure than what they were getting.

The last couple of Bathurst 12 Hours have been very good races.

Having just watched the first round of the European GT3 Championship @ Silverstone with its awesome line up of cars, there were not too many punters to be seen.

If they can't attack a crowd there what chance do they have out here?

[D.R.T.]

A very good question, a good one for the event promoter about that Green Hornett.

I don't think anyone is expecting a monster crowd by any stretch but I think they（the promoter） feel cars like Ferrari, Porsche, Audi, Mosler, Aston Martin will create more interest from media, sponsors and the public - rightly or wronly.

[Sheep Stations]

Aww for gawds sake!...there were more volunteer marshals at the last 2 B12hr's than paying spectators, and now crowds are a concern for this year? Puhlease.

Give it up, it's a GT race now that includes prod cars. Embrace it, enjoy it...or stay at home. Please yourself.

[Wood-duck]

Originally Posted by Sheep Stations

Aww for gawds sake!...there were more volunteer marshals at the last 2 B12hr's than paying spectators, and now crowds are a concern for this year? Puhlease.

Give it up, it's a GT race now that includes prod cars. Embrace it, enjoy it...or stay at home. Please yourself.

Let's see how many spectators turn up this year before you shoot too many arrows there sheep.....

[Sheep Stations]

Originally Posted by Wood-duck

Let's see how many spectators turn up this year before you shoot too many arrows there sheep.....

Shoot too many arrows?, cmon you've got to be kidding.

I'm not making assertations about the crowd, the pro-prods/anti GT's (whatever you want to call yourselves) are mentioning crowds.

I'm biting my tongue on many of these negative posts such is the junk thats being written...either get on board with the event or leave it alone. Feel free to resume normal negative transmission post event if you feel it was a disaster.

Last time I looked, the heading was Bathurst 12 hour, not whine about production cars.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by ff s conscience

I think there's one here already??

Wasn't there one at Motorclassica recently? Lindsay Fox has one for his collection I think. ??

Nah that was a McLaren SLR GT that Mercedes ran a one make series for pro/am drivers in Europe for. From memory it was painted a sickly yellow color.

Hey Efioz care to expand on your 'patience' comment? I couldnt see one being raced in Australia, well for one its quite expensive and its a brand new car so it wouldnt be allowed to race as I know it in Aus GT unless a well known Mercedes enthusiast who also likes truck has brought one as a toy.........

[GTRMagic]

B12 Porsche Saved From Floods

While there seems to be a late entry, another Lancer, and a Lotus drops out...