[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[JoestForEver]

Well I guess I have to eat my pessimistic predictions on lap time now. Can they be quicker than 3.26? I'm curious.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

Well I guess I have to eat my pessimistic predictions on lap time now. Can they be quicker than 3.26? I'm curious.

I´m thinking they will do slower than 3:24

[Articus]

To be honest I think we're going down to 3:20. That Toyota can run 1000hp down the straights.

[TF110]

3:26's in the first session? GTE is at 4:01's. They usually go 3:56 in qualifying, if lmp gains that amount of time theyll be doing 3:21's.

[Articus]

If those GTE teams can get the lead out. The sandbagging is rampant. Those Porsche are wanting for a weight break sooo badly. It's painfully clear on live timing right now.

[carbon_titanium]

Everyone will hide his cards during the test, realisticly best GTE will barely run in 3.58... surely porsche will ask for a weight break and corvette for the 90L fuel tank. Nice to see the lmp1 already in the range of 3.26! in a clean lap during qualifying 3.22-3.23 is pretty achievable.
Where can I see the live-timing? on http://live.fiawec.com/ the page is blank

[JoestForEver]

Originally Posted by carbon_titanium

Everyone will hide his cards during the test, realisticly best GTE will barely run in 3.58... surely porsche will ask for a weight break and corvette for the 90L fuel tank. Nice to see the lmp1 already in the range of 3.26! in a clean lap during qualifying 3.22-3.23 is pretty achievable.
Where can I see the live-timing? on http://live.fiawec.com/ the page is blank

http://www.24h-lemans.com/live/en/ There you go.

[carbon_titanium]

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

http://www.24h-lemans.com/live/en/ There you go.

thanks

[Spyderman]

http://www.motorsport.com/lemans/new...akes-its-mark/

[MyNameIsNigel]

Another interesting update by Racecar Engineering after the LM Test Day. It apparently did get a bit "hot" at the back of both cars:

Both Porsche 919′s caught fire in the pit garage during the test, leading to hasty repairs.

All of the sections that burned were in the region of the turbocharger and GU-H

That would appear to be a bit "worrying" less than two week before the Big Race.

[CTD]

Cooling isn't something you "just" fix... :/

[ger80]

does it just get to hot when the car is not moving anymore and the turbo is still hot?

[Creep89]

I was thinking the same. Maybe it's only a problem when they have to pit longer for repairs, but regular pit stops are fine.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Could also be that heat/cooling issues are exacerbated at LM due to the particular nature of the track.

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by CTD

Cooling isn't something you "just" fix... :/

And/or, is too much heat being generated or centralized in one small location since both turbos are in close proximity? Would seem it would require a very efficient cooling system to take away heat from that area.

I just made a typo when writing that last sentence since 'L' and 'K' are neighbors on the keyboard... I typed 'cooking' system rather than 'cooling' system.

Maybe, that is more appropriate for describing the current situation!

[Bandicoot17]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Could also be that heat/cooling issues are exacerbated at LM due to the particular nature of the track.

You'd think with the long straights it wouldn't though right?

Perhaps it's related to the new engine cover??

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by Bandicoot17

Perhaps it's related to the new engine cover??

If, as rumored, the cover changes shape with wind pressure, would it also change shape with sufficient heat applied?

So far, it looks like heat in the hybrid devices is a challenge. With Porsche, there seems to be a need to keep their batteries and the ER-H cool. Would the liquid cooling system on the batteries work with the turbos? That would be a lot of plumbing, if so.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by Bandicoot17

You'd think with the long straights it wouldn't though right?

Longer straights also possibly mean higher heat rejection figures. And it could well be that due to the limitation in the amount of energy that can be released by the ERS, excess heat that is not recovered by the ERS-H builds up in the system causing overheating issues.

Just speculating.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

If, as rumored, the cover changes shape with wind pressure, would it also change shape with sufficient heat applied?

So far, it looks like heat in the hybrid devices is a challenge. With Porsche, there seems to be a need to keep their batteries and the ER-H cool. Would the liquid cooling system on the batteries work with the turbos? That would be a lot of plumbing, if so.

I think that's one of the biggest reasons Audi and Toyota didn't go for the ers-h.

They could use the battery cooling system,the engine cooling system,or a dedicated cooling system.would lead to more plumbing and connections and higher possibilities to leak.possibly causing fires,that's if they don't already have a turbo cooling system in place.which I imagine they do,I'd guess both turbines are oil lubricated and liquid cooled.

either way this is a big big problem.

[Spyderman]

IIRC it was the insulation material around the turbo area that caught fire. Not the turbo itself.

[ss_collins]

Yeah wasn't the turbos it was all the stuff around them and the engine cover itself.

[Aysedasi]

So presumably, not too difficult to remedy then Sam?

[NelisB]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

So presumably, not too difficult to remedy then Sam?

If I can guess that's harder to do, you need to look at the whole of the bodywork to work out how to cool it down without disrupting all the aero work you did.

[Richard C]

So when rules say something like "Movable bodywork parts/elements are forbidden when the car is in motion.", I appreciate the effort at simplicity, but also roll my eyes knowing that absolute compliance is impossible. There always is some movement. All cars break the rules. So at what point is movement no longer OK?

I expect that the rules are vaguely written on purpose so that they can figure out the details of how to enforce as they go. Sometimes prior issues do show up in the rules (such as I think there are specifics around wing flexure) To paraphrase the classic phrase regarding what is art vs. pornography... I can't define excessive flex, but I know it when I see it!

MyNameIsNigel posted this link about four days ago in the LMP Future Regulations thread...

http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...D0017-LMP1.pdf

Which shows an effort at trying to address a specific problem area (That document appears to be focused on front and rear wings). But it still leaves other parts of the body in the grey area due to a lack of testing procedures.

In my mind the new rear cover of the 919 is playing in that grey area. While no team is going to outright say "this is designed to flex at speed", check out the photos at the bottom of the RE article. Particularly those that show the unloaded/static position and aero loaded/dynamic position...

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/n...ed-at-le-mans/

I am not an aerodynamicist, but if I was to guess, given the upward flip (sort of like a Gurney flap) of the trailing edge of the cover, I can imagine that at low speed, such as lower speed corners, it helps the efficiency of the diffuser to create downforce. At high speeds, the trailing edge is pushed down and it likely reduces the efficiency of the diffuser as well as reduces drag when it is needed on long straights. Basically some type of passive DRS. I absolutely believe it was designed to flex.

I applaud and support the creativity, especially if the rules are loosely written. It is what teams should be doing! But I expect that some type of directive and test procedure from the FIA will be established in the very near future so that teams can know exactly how far to go in this direction. I hope things are clarified prior to the race. I am a big Porsche fan and I don't want to see race results sorted out via appeals.

Richard

[chernaudi]

Unfortunately, it seems that the "flexi-deck" also likes to catch fire along with heat shielding near the turbos, as we witnessed yesterday.