2010 Bathurst 12 hour

[Alan52]

Sitting up at Skyline watching the Superscreen as the crash unfolded I was silently screaming "get the safety car out".It was obvious 62 was immobile and anyone who has been at Bathurst knows what a blind spot it was stopped in.There was ample time to make that decision before Herridge went in but as that team manager in Grant Boyden's excellent interview said the SC boards often flag the start of a new race to catch up to the safety car.Both drivers and race control failed to show duty of care in this incident.By the way I would agree with people protesting plans to open the race up to higher spec GT type cars.The lesson of the 1990's 12 Hour in allowing the homologation special RX 7's and then having to allow Porsche's (as well as Lotus,Honda NSX,Maserati etc) so that something can be competitive with them shows how easy it is to get away from the essence of a production event.Also I would like to add my congratulations on Richard's commentary.

[Parramatta_Power]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Sitting up at Skyline watching the Superscreen as the crash unfolded I was silently screaming "get the safety car out".It was obvious 62 was immobile and anyone who has been at Bathurst knows what a blind spot it was stopped in.There was ample time to make that decision before Herridge went in but as that team manager in Grant Boyden's excellent interview said the SC boards often flag the start of a new race to catch up to the safety car.Both drivers and race control failed to show duty of care in this incident. By the way I would agree with people protesting plans to open the race up to higher spec GT type cars.The lesson of the 1990's 12 Hour in allowing the homologation special RX 7's and then having to allow Porsche's (as well as Lotus,Honda NSX,Maserati etc) so that something can be competitive with them shows how easy it is to get away from the essence of a production event. Also I would like to add my congratulations on Richard's commentary.

Is safety your main concern about allowing GT Cars to race at the 12 Hour(which is obviously very understandable, higher speeds = higher risks) or a lack of entries in the classes that would be opened up... Just Curious.

[Sheep Stations]

Originally Posted by Wazm

I agree that flag marshals shouldn't be calling for a safety car but I was the sector marshal and as such it is part of my brief if I believe it necessary, which I did. I wasn't on the flag loop, I was on the race control radio channel.

Agree completely re sector marshal responsibility...I was on the flag loop not the RC channel and through that flag loop the flag marshal at 6 called for the safety car immediately after 62 went in.

Hence my comment about giving flag marshals the power to call the SC.
Perhaps like several other points short of numbers, you were doing multiple jobs?

[toby]

Why didn't the team managers warn the drivers that there was a problem.

As team manager of one of the cars in the race I had time to warn our driver twice of where the accident was and too slow down, particularly when I saw cars passing it on either side meaning that it was stuck in the middle of the track.

That was before Herridge drilled the Evo.

Our car made it past OK.

The problem is drivers do not observe waved yellow flags anymore because of the over use of "safety cars" and "red flags" over the past decade or so.

[Belly13]

Originally Posted by davo.

On a different note, has their been much interest in teams to enter the 6 hour Production Race at Eastern Creek this year?

WAY too early to tell. Will have to wait until mid/late May to begin to see some sort of interest. Also a good idea to keep an eye out on the entrants for the 2 rounds of the AMC in between. I think it will attract a few Combined Touring guys, as costs will be at least half of what they are at the 12 Hour. On the other hand, guys who raced at the 12 Hour may have blown their budgets for the year already and are already looking to the 2011 12 Hour.

It'd be good to see a few new cars come out for the race - I'm sure there are production cars all over Australia just lying there. I think a field of 30-35 is very realistic and probable. We'll have to meet up davo!!!

[mtpanorama]

Originally Posted by alfacors

Will get those pics to you soon too.

Thanks, it was good to finally meet you.
Can I also bludge some of 99, the FG ute, as I ended up signwriting it as well over the weekend. If you look at the lower front bar you will see my sign

[Woolley]

Yellow flag instructions the world over are the same and for the same reason: Slow down, be prepared to stop. Penalty for not obeying them is significant damage and cost and potential death or serious injury.

If you cream the car that caused the flags it's pretty conclusive that you didn't obey them properly and for that there is no acceptable excuse, with the possible exception of the flags coming out after you're already committed to the corner. That other drivers missed the wreck may just be down to them making appropriate adjustments to speed and awareness. Bathurst has a number of blind turns where there is a likelihood of a stopped car or wreckage on circuit and that means the drivers have even more responsibility to react accordingly.

You can't rely on SC. It's got to be called for and the decision made - this isn't an oval where it's automatic - and drivers will often use it as a reason to hurry back to/out of the pits thus negating the effect. Flags/lights on scene are instant and mandatory in their interpretation. Imagine if the car had been on fire with a trapped driver and marshals in attendance?

This isn't a problem limited to Bathurst or Australia and we suffer the same up here. Perhaps this and the previous tragic incident should be played at every drivers' breifing to remind them why it is imperative they react properly.

[Oldtony]

A bit late, but thanks for the magic streamed coverage and commentary. It is great to hear a team that treats it's audience as having an interest in what is going on, and a reasonable level of intelligence. Why can't the TV FTA commentators learn that lesson?
Not keen on the suggestion for more "exotics" being included. The invitation class this time round didn't feature much in the competitive side of the event and surely inviting more limited availability cars at the high end would in fact actively discourage the greater range of manufacturer involvement that this event needs.
A manufacturer would be looking for the ability to get a tag that they can hang an ad or a showroom tag on for a vehicle they have on offer to the public. Outright is best, and a class win is useful, but in this "green" age is there a case for an "index of efficiency" or some such format to be included. Take into account such factors as laps covered, fuel used, carbon footprint, load carrying capacity of the road version etc. Would take a far better theorist than me to sort out a system that compared an R8 waggon with a huge carrying capacity with say a Toyota Yaris but I would imagine it could be done and give manufacturers a great sales gimmick to hang thier hat on.
Holden Waggon beats Alfa diesel for Duckworth Lewis trophy at Bathurst?

[Wazm]

Originally Posted by Sheep Stations

Hence my comment about giving flag marshals the power to call the SC.
Perhaps like several other points short of numbers, you were doing multiple jobs?

Nope, I was at sector 7, other side of the track to flag 6. We had 2 guys at FP7 so I was free to move round.

[Wood-duck]

hi all

Does anybody know how i could get a copy of the live coverage and commentary of the entire race (the same that was broadcast on the net, into the pits etc)

VHS, DVD - not fussy....

if anyone has access to make a copy it would be greatly appreciated

PM me if you might be able to help

Thanks :-)

[alfacors]

I doubt you'll get the entire coverage. There is usually a DVD released later on of the highlights though.

[XR8Chic]

Hey, I am hoping someone can help me with this...

There was a photographer at Forest elbow on Friday, who got some photo's of the #14 Saloon car, when his brakes failed, and he drifted through the corner. He came over and spoke to Simon (the driver), and was going to come back later and arrange for Simon to buy the photo's, but with the rain, and the 2nd race being cancelled - it never happened.

If anyone can help me find this photographer, can you please PM me.

thanks!

[alfacors]

Any idea what he looks like? Age etc? I might be able to help (shoot me a PM).

[Crash Test]

Probably the easiest way to identify a photographer is describe their level of ugliness haha...

[alfacors]

I'll not comment of the beauty of some team managers..... especially when their photos get published online.....

I've uploaded photos from Practice and the Race - supports still to come.

http://www.speedshots.com.au/gallery...bimf/2010_b12/

[Crash Test]

Yeouch, that was a pretty bloody ugly photo, I spose I should get back to taking photos then

[Downoz]

Can anyone tell me that if a data logger for Turbo cars will only register to 1.5bar then how can they measure the Evo X, that is allowed to run at 1.595 bar.

Perhaps this is what is holding up the final results of the 12 hour.

[Wood-duck]

Originally Posted by Downoz

Can anyone tell me that if a data logger for Turbo cars will only register to 1.5bar then how can they measure the Evo X, that is allowed to run at 1.595 bar.

Perhaps this is what is holding up the final results of the 12 hour.

Downoz..... This is a VERY VERY VERY interesting question

My knowledge on the matter is limited in part - what i do know is that it is an MSE data logger and as far as i am aware it can only measure up to 1.5 bar.

The real problem is that, as you have stated correctly, is that the EVO can run up to 1.595 bar. To give you an idea, a Subaru WRX (like the Hunter and WBR examples) are only allowed to run 1.2 bar - these are the rules.

So how come an EVO is allowed to run 25-30% more boost than a WRX ?

Answer: Rulebook loophole exploitation, and somebody approving the homologation without considering the consequences. Some of Mr Heaphy's finest work perhaps ?

The EVO, factory, comes out at 1.2 bar i believe. The same as a WRX. However, in the homologation papers, Mitsubishi have been allowed 1.59 bar to cover a "spike" in boost which occurs occasionally.

The WRX is 1.20 including spike, so really the WRX has to run less that 1.2 to allow for boost spikes. This in effect, allows the EVO guys to wind up the boost and blow everyone else away.

Everyone whinges and whines and carries on about the 12 hour race being an "EVO FEST".......

Well my friends, the answer is simple.............

Bring them back to the same boost as everyone else !!! Tear up the homologation paper that gives them their advantage.... an unfair advantage. Make them run factory boost like the other turbo cars, and at a level whereby it can be measured and policed properly.

This would then make cars like the R8 Tourer, WRX, the F6 Typhoon etc more competitive because the playing field is levelled, and then you would have a really interesting motor race.

It would be a great thing.... then you also wouldnt need to run exotic specials (like the mustang, camaro etc) to be let in to try and cut down "evo boredom". The race would be exciting on it's own merit. And that would be awesome.

I know what people will say... "But a BMW won the race..." . Yes, the BMW did. But that could mostly be attributed to the rain and some brilliance from Mr Bowe. If it was a dry race, it would have been the same story as 2008 and 2009... probably worse.

Bring the EVO back to the same boost as the WRX, then see how dominant it is....

*rant concluded*

[mildura1963]

How about no boost restrictions & see how long they last

[retro]

Post race press conference...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTo-42R_j0c

[mtpanorama]

Some nice shots of cars that I did the signs on. Great shots Nathan.

[mtpanorama]

Speaking with the tuner of 3 of the cars in the event that were turbo, he was saying that the boost monitors are useless. The technology is ancient and the three he was dealing with all gave different readings for boost and for atmospheric pressure.
Even the CAMS guys were saying how outdated they are.

They even swapped them between 2 of the cars and they got different readings again. One of the monitors was reading up to 4lbs of boost higher than what the data logging was reading. Also one of the monitors the information couldn't be downloaded by the CAMS computer, so CAMS had to report it as the monitor had been tampered with. Even though the team could download the info onto their computer.

[BrettFrancis]

Originally Posted by Wood-duck

The real problem is that, as you have stated correctly, is that the EVO can run up to 1.595 bar. To give you an idea, a Subaru WRX (like the Hunter and WBR examples) are only allowed to run 1.2 bar - these are the rules....

...Bring the EVO back to the same boost as the WRX, then see how dominant it is....

*rant concluded*

Actually, it's only the Evo X that is allowed to run that much boost.

The Evo IX is still limited to 1.2 bar by regulations.

So that still means there's a number of Evos in front of you.... But it would be nice to see the WRX running up with them. And a Bimmer or two. And anything else that would encourage more manufacturers to get involved (without being given "artificial assistance" to get up the front).

[Wood-duck]

Sorry Brett, i should have been more specific - yes i was referring to the EVO X.

I suppose this begs the question - why is one model of EVO allowed to run more boost than another ?

It also puts into perspective the speed of the Supabarn, VIP and Easts cars in recent years, or is the Evo 9 actually a quicker toy ?

[6.213km]

Originally Posted by mtpanorama

I noticed during the race the narrow rear track on the new FG. Is this to bring it in line with the VE / BF or something ? If nothing else it makes it look weird.... At the track its very noticeable and looks bizarre - handling looked ok though...