Ferrari dismiss Stepney/McLaren suspend Coughlan - Page 12

davyboy · 10 Jul 2007, 17:05 (Ref:1959868)

This is going from the bizarre to the ridiculous. What reasonable person would send their wife to a local copyshop with 700 pages of confidential information obtained in shady circumstances. What was Mike Coughlan thinking of.

lost_button · 10 Jul 2007, 17:42 (Ref:1959907)

Makes you wonder if indeed any of the F2007 tech spec filtered into the development of the Mac. Never say never... this could all be interesting!

davyboy · 10 Jul 2007, 18:35 (Ref:1959960)

A couple of other thoughts.

o For this to stick, Ferrari will need to prove that they have been harmed in which case they would be awarded damages. Proving that they have been harmed is extremely difficult... but if they did, the award against Mike Coughlan could be tens of millions of dollars. Certainly too much for an individual to manage.

o Could the purpose of this UK case be to gain information which could be used in the Italian case against Stepney ? It would certainly be an easier way of obtaining information rather than through cross-country orders and sopenas.

kartracer41 · 10 Jul 2007, 18:43 (Ref:1959972)

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned that I have thought of, is that I keep seeing people mention stealing Ferrari's IP and putting it into the development of so and so's car. If say McLaren was in possesion of some Ferrari plans or drawings, they could use that to their advantage without any part being measurablly the same on their car. All they would have had to do it take the information and understand what Ferrari is trying to acheive with it. After doing so, they could easily adapt angles and such from what they have learned to parts of their design to acheieve similar results. So there may not be any measurable "stolen" parts on the McLarens, while the stolen information may still have effected their performance greatly.

davyboy · 10 Jul 2007, 18:55 (Ref:1959983)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartracer41

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned that I have thought of, is that I keep seeing people mention stealing Ferrari's IP and putting it into the development of so and so's car. If say McLaren was in possesion of some Ferrari plans or drawings, they could use that to their advantage without any part being measurablly the same on their car. All they would have had to do it take the information and understand what Ferrari is trying to acheive with it. After doing so, they could easily adapt angles and such from what they have learned to parts of their design to acheieve similar results. So there may not be any measurable "stolen" parts on the McLarens, while the stolen information may still have effected their performance greatly.

You're absolutely right. The interesting thing in all of this will be determining how many people in McLaren had sight of those documents and when. If its discovered that senior executives of McLaren had seen them... McLaren could be disqualified from the 2007 championship under the sporting code.

TWRv12 · 10 Jul 2007, 19:28 (Ref:1960009)

The fact that the copy shop incident took place on the 2nd or 3rd of May, makes it tougher for Coughlan and McLaren. Will be interesting if Ferrari get to see his McLaren workstation.

Hope he was working on next years car, which would make McLarens case slightly easier. Ferrari seem not to be going after Neale, just yet.

One of the big things about the Ferrari, is the layout and weight distribution which are alot different to their rivals. Hard to copy, but hard to say it was copied.

In December 1995, Team Toyota Europe lost all their WRC points and got banned for the following 12 months because of dodgy turbos. In 1984 Tyrrell got banned for the last three races and lost all points.

If he was working on this year's car they could get hammered by the FIA.

davyboy · 10 Jul 2007, 19:39 (Ref:1960017)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWRv12

If he was working on this year's car they could get hammered by the FIA.

Max Mosley said that if one team had confidential information about another team it would put the first team in serious situation regarding the sporting code. I read that to be irrespective of what that information was i.e. related to this year's or last year's car. If senior people in McLaren knew this back in May, they have big problems. I'm would be fairly sure that Ron Dennis has been unaware of this as it completely violates the fabric of his character.

Look at all of us on this ! Gossiping like old biddies.... and we wonder why the Sun's Britain's largest selling newspaper

brands · 10 Jul 2007, 21:09 (Ref:1960103)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWRv12

The fact that the copy shop incident took place on the 2nd or 3rd of May, makes it tougher for Coughlan and McLaren. Will be interesting if Ferrari get to see his McLaren workstation.

I've read Coughlan and Stepney meet and were seen having a meal together in Spain prior to the Circuit de Catalunya test. That lasted 4 days, 30th April-3rd May although it was only planned for 3 days (until the 2nd May).

That might account for how Coughlan received the data on the 30th and the wife visiting the copyshop on the 3rd......

Marbot · 10 Jul 2007, 22:14 (Ref:1960188)

Apparently Trudy Coughlan is no stranger to photocopiers.I wonder if she left some feedback just recently.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=32094

andy_b · 10 Jul 2007, 23:32 (Ref:1960261)

you couldnt make it up, could you

Marbot · 10 Jul 2007, 23:44 (Ref:1960268)

Apparently the name of the photocopying shop is 'Luigi's' and their moto is 'It's a fair copy'.

JohnSSC · 11 Jul 2007, 00:04 (Ref:1960280)

Wow! Ferrari has gone to the extreme to smear Stepney, going as far as to post a thank you to a photocopier supplier using the name Trudy Coughlan!! Clever lads to make it look like she was covering her tracks by using "Tyrell."

The smallest details are covered in their vast, over-arching consipiracy to make Stepney look bad!

Why, they could have simply sued him, or held him to his non-compete, or given a bad reference or worse: told the World he supported Tony Blair and all of his policies....

I find ineptitude fascinating. It is amazing that Stepney could do what he did with Ferrari vis a vis making them WCC and then put on his very best Inspector Clousseau impersonation whilst shopping himself to Honda (apparently - and thank you Peter for the Clousseau analogy).

**Peter Mallett** · 11 Jul 2007, 04:35 (Ref:1960332)

Off topic comment alert
I have to type this or my brain will explode!

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=32089

Thanks for reading, you've been a wonderful audience. Don't forget to try the veal and tip your waitress. We now return you to the topic

About the best bit of this thread so far!

foreversideways · 11 Jul 2007, 09:39 (Ref:1960487)

I don't think James Bond needs to worry about his job. Master spies, these two are not.

VIVA GT · 11 Jul 2007, 10:47 (Ref:1960543)

So, things have taken another turn:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60706
I'll now stand back and wait for the conspiracy theorists explain this one...

Red · 11 Jul 2007, 10:52 (Ref:1960549)

What's to explain? Ferrari agreed not to get him in an Italian court, for a criminal case, while Coughlan will fully cooperate.

foreversideways · 11 Jul 2007, 11:14 (Ref:1960571)

Ferrari will want to pursue any action in the Italian courts if possible, particularily a court close to the factory.

ensign14 · 11 Jul 2007, 11:32 (Ref:1960592)

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreversideways

Ferrari will want to pursue any action in the Italian courts if possible, particularily a court close to the factory.

Actually, they might not. The English courts are 5-10 times faster in civil actions.

davyboy · 11 Jul 2007, 12:51 (Ref:1960664)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Off topic comment alert
I have to type this or my brain will explode!

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=32089

Thanks for reading, you've been a wonderful audience. Don't forget to try the veal and tip your waitress. We now return you to the topic

About the best bit of this thread so far!

I know what was missing from this scandal... some sex. Thanks for introducing it Peter, let's hope there's more from here on in.

foreversideways · 11 Jul 2007, 13:26 (Ref:1960686)

Yes but there would be no skullduggery or bias in the High Court.

**Peter Mallett** · 11 Jul 2007, 13:46 (Ref:1960702)

You can't be suggesting that Ferrari owns the judges surely.

foreversideways · 11 Jul 2007, 13:50 (Ref:1960704)

It's Italy, you must know that anything is posible in Italy.

TWRv12 · 11 Jul 2007, 14:34 (Ref:1960731)

Ye olde divide any conquer routine. Looks like Couglan may escape the Italian criminal trial, at the expense of....

Inigo Montoya · 11 Jul 2007, 14:40 (Ref:1960732)

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreversideways

It's Italy, you must know that anything is posible in Italy.

Who knows, perhaps even justice?

Bias in the Italian court? Silliness. I could just as easily (and just as stupidly) say there will be bias in the English court if its tried there.

ensign14 · 11 Jul 2007, 15:15 (Ref:1960752)

The English Court found in favour of Colonel Gadaffi's son against the Telegraph. The English legal system earns this country an absolute fortune money because it is fair, unbiased and comparatively speedy. The Italian Court system is clogged and many Italians prefer arbitration as a result, but an arbitrator cannot grant a search order.

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