V8Supercar - Car Of The Future (Merged x4)

[GTRMagic]

Its funny that in AA this week, Mr Cochrane talks about labelling the new-for-2011 chassis design as "Car of Tomorrow"

Wonder who read here perhaps?

[racer69]

Originally Posted by Y.N.M

Most true racing fans would probably much rather watch guys racing proper race cars than a road car with slicks! I know I would.

I consider myself a true racing fan and i think road cars with 'race improving', along with the current lot driving, would be great stuff to watch

'proper' race cars with a roof, they are Sports Sedans aren't they?

[V8 Fireworks]

What's more popular DTM or WTCC? People don't really want to see cars with 250hp and a top speed of 230 kph. They don't even care that DTM field is padded out with novelty drivers like S Stoddart and M Lauda when top GP2 and F3 stars without Le Mans or F1 programs in place are plentiful.

So the top racing class should be relatively fast and spectacular. It goes to show already that 888 and DJR are competitive without manufacturer sponsorship, so it is good that such backing is not needed simply to be allocated the latest season old Audi or Volvo super tourers on an exclusive basis as part of a meager field etc.

There ain't anything wrong with a Toyota Aurion V8 Supercar (Toyota engined) and a Mazda6 or a stunning Jaguar XF V8 Supercar (Ford engined despite splits...?) as a branding exercise.

Hopefully the rep driving either a Toyota Aurion or Falcon XR6 down a winding tree line road with blind corners is not pretending to be a V8 Supercar driver... so what does it matter, both cars are bland but competent rep mobiles, even if one is not rear drive and V8 powered?

[Y.N.M]

Originally Posted by racer69

I consider myself a true racing fan and i think road cars with 'race improving', along with the current lot driving, would be great stuff to watch

'proper' race cars with a roof, they are Sports Sedans aren't they?

Yeah your right, I like watching most racing too, though I would much rather watch something like V8 supercars over some sort of production car series.

Haha, yes Sports Sedans, your right bout that too! But what I ment by "proper racing" cars is the fact that a V8 supercar is along way away from the road car. Although being based on a road car and having certain compromises, a lot of the car is still designed specifically to go fast around a track. I think you put a production car out there, and there're just a bit dull compared. No doubt the racing will still good! But what makes racing alot more interesting for me is the cars themselves.

[nafe!]

The reason i object to this is because v8supercars is the australian touring car championship. Wether they use that name now or not it was Production racing, then it was group c and group a and then it was group a 5litre and v8supercars from 97 onwards.

Even in its most recent form the category was formed with production based rules requiring a 4 door sedan to be built by the manufacturer with rear wheel drive and a 5 litre pushrod v8.

For the record i dont have a issue at all with different formulas, i love formula one, fia gt, ALMS, dtm etc. But i do have a issue when the australian touring car championship is turned into a one make championship without a single thing in common with their road cars.

My ideal solution would be finding a medium between what we have now and genuine production racing. Essentially something like a modern group c.

Surely part of the reason they cost so much today is because they are so different from a production car. The chassis are stripped completely, modified significantly to suit what is competive or required by the rules and nothing is carried over from the road car.

Why not keep production motors with room to modify particular components, then the motor wont cost 80,000 to replace everytime one is blown. The same could be said for suspension, transmission etc etc.

Run fat grippy slicks with less aero and you would have cars not far of v8supercar pace that actually production based race cars.

Real motorsport fans would be won back, especially if teams could enter other makes such as BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Chrysler etc, current fans of v8supercars would be amazed that cars can actually pass and perform differently in different conditions.

That is what the car of tomorrow should be heading towards.

[Crash Test]

Which parts on current day V8 Supercars are actually sourced from road cars? Turret, bonnet, boot lid, front doors, firewalls(?), light assemblies... anything else? Somebody said back a bit that they aren't space frame, but the sure as heck never start out life as a road car. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the various parts arrive at the race car manufacturer very much separate before being welded together in the form of a V8 Supercar?

If you had a spec space frame, you save massive amounts of money on production, on development, and even bigger bucks on repairs. Bolting a new front or rear clip on the cars if it's a space frame is mega easy, imagine the pressure it would take off James Courtney's team!

And the thing is, people within the industry are smart enough to make the cars look like the current day cars. People think of Sports Sedans when you say spaceframe and get all scared, but if you have a concrete rule book, and carry over the donor panels we have today (heck, make them all out of the poly material they use on the fenders), it won't tear the fabric of the universe apart.

There's no real need to be fearful of change, heck have you seen what they are going to do with the BTCC COT?

[St00ge]

Crash test, yes the chassis today are basically built as space frames and the outside outside skin is attached pretty much after construction. The FGs feature the bolt on front chassis rails and alike to reduce the cost and increase the speed of repairs.

[Matt]

I'd say the V8's are closer to a "proper" racing car than any sort of production series. A "Proper" racing car is one in which every single part on the vehicle is designed for one thing, and that is racing.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by nafe!

Why not keep production motors with room to modify particular components, then the motor wont cost 80,000 to replace everytime one is blown. The same could be said for suspension, transmission etc etc.

Run fat grippy slicks with less aero and you would have cars not far of v8supercar pace that actually production based race cars.

You'd have to replace every component for every round though, more $$$.

A happy medium would be the current cars +100kg or +200kg, everything ultra-heavy duty, six litre motor with low rev limit etc, so that the whole car could go a whole season without having to do any more than replacing consumables. In combination with rolling starts to again reduce stress on the drivetrain, that ought to cut costs.

[bazil]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

As a race fan I like to see different types of cars, innovation, opposing strengths and weaknesses and rewarding of those with the best package.
None of this will be possible with the forementioned car of tomorrow, yet they will still try and call them touring cars

If we were all completely honest, there is hardly a genuine, real "Touring Car" class any where in the world that is worth watching and pulls a decent crowd. They are called race cars or in this case Supercars for a reason.

Production car racing as it was in the late 60"s/early 70's with drivers like Norm Beechey wearing a lap sash sliding across the bench seat in a Chevy Nova was great and is part of history, were it should be. There is a great read about NASCAR and one of its least known champions (Red Byron) on their site at the moment that highlights this sort of racing of "road cars" in the day. http://www.nascar.com/2009/news/feat...ron/index.html

But NASCAR like any successful formula evolves over time with the wishes of those that pay and support, the masses. For some this is a shame because of their personnel preference to a particular style they like or prefer but history, longevity and growth tells us that the evolution of thier sport to the COT has been the right path.

With the car manufacturing "giants" going tits up all around us it makes sense to build a racecar that does not rely on the manufacturer to build or over support and it does not hurt for them to look like the various road cars for fan support either. This could open the way for other manufacturers like Toyota has in NASCAR to leverage the most popular form of motorsport in this country and participate in Supercars. They will bring fresh money and sponsor interest while playing by the same rules as all other teams.

Motorsport will always be expensive but there should always be effort applied to reduce costs as an ongoing concern. The COT will if nothing else takes away the concerns of the sports life being reliant on the various manufacturers but still encouraging them to financially invest into and to piggyback of the commercial exposure of it.

You may not ever be able to buy a 6.0 litre Magna GTO but who cares if 888 raced them and got some financial input from Mitsubishi?? Win/ Win I reckon...

[mjt57]

Originally Posted by St00ge

Crash test, yes the chassis today are basically built as space frames and the outside outside skin is attached pretty much after construction. The FGs feature the bolt on front chassis rails and alike to reduce the cost and increase the speed of repairs.

From what I understand of the construction process, they are built around a VESA specified roll cage on a "spit".

If they used cars off the production line and built the cages into them, after stripping the guts out of them, they'd twist and turn and would handle like pigs.

It's easier to build a solid race car from the ground up. But it takes away the Production concept as nothing in the mechanicals rememble what goes into VE or current model Falcon road cars.

And for that, the V8s, for me, aren't that appealing.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by bazil

They are called race cars or in this case Supercars for a reason.

Whats that, marketing/branding purposes?

Being completely honest, what is Super or racey about control components, control tyres, silouette chassis etc

Originally Posted by bazil

But NASCAR like any successful formula evolves over time with the wishes of those that pay and support, the masses.

What masses called for the COT? I am also wondering whether Nascar gained or lost ground in terms of tv figures, track attendance, solvent teams etc since the introduction of the COT.

Originally Posted by bazil

This could open the way for other manufacturers like Toyota has in NASCAR to leverage the most popular form of motorsport in this country and participate in Supercars. They will bring fresh money and sponsor interest while playing by the same rules as all other teams. .

Yet if the race car has no connection to the road cars they are trying to sell and are already the number 1 car company why would they bother? However I am sure they would be interested if they could race the cars they sell, you know like what they did with the Corrolla in the ARC.

[rdmdog]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Yet if the race car has no connection to the road cars they are trying to sell and are already the number 1 car company why would they bother? However I am sure they would be interested if they could race the cars they sell, you know like what they did with the Corrolla in the ARC.

Just wondering at what stage Toyota raced a Corolla in the ARC that you could buy from a dealer?

Maybe in the Pre Celica Group A Days? (I know some privateers liked using AE86 (?) Sprinters)

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by rdmdog

Just wondering at what stage Toyota raced a Corolla in the ARC that you could buy from a dealer?

I take your point but was more using it as a comparison to Toyota running a v8 rear wheel drive silhouette Supercar.

[Thunder1]

A good read

http://insiderracingnews.com/Writers/RG/061209.html