the fastest 850/1000/1300/over special saloons

[big andy]

the fasest special saloons on lap times not race wins
these are my thoughts top 3 in each class

upto 850cc. reg ward mini/imp .peter day 2cyl bda.david enderby 8portmini

850/1000 . ben barlby suzuki sc100 .ginger marshall kitten imp.john homewood imp

1000/1300 .david enderby vw ghia .bill sollis KAD mini. peter baldwin bda.

and over tony ellis5.3 astin martin. tony sugden 130rs skoda. mick hill 5.0 beetle

[paulSenna]

Gerry in Baby Bertha should be in the over 1300cc class I reckon... and how about Nick Whiting's 3.4 Escort, Alec Poole's 2.0 Skoda, Jonathan Buncombe's 2.0 Chimp and Iain Richardson's 8.1 Chevrolet Corvair.

[big andy]

baby bertha was at her peak of development in 76 when it was the fastest legal s/saloon of them all but the aston and the skoda were of much later vintage some 10years and were a good few seconds a lap quicker on the results i have

[Dan Rear]

Fastest 2-litre was the Derek Walker Skoda LB14 I'd say.

[Clive Brown]

With suggestions like this, big andy, you could probably start a fight in a phone box!

Seriously, it's a difficult task, because over the period in which I was involved, times improved so much. For example, early in 1976 Rob Mason did a 51.6 round Brands in George Bevan's last club Imp, which at the time broke John Homewood's previous lap record (52.4?). Within ten years, David Enderby's VW Karmann Ghia was two seconds a lap faster, and after David have moved up to the 1300cc class, I believe Ben Bowlby, probably Ginger Marshall, and maybe Bob Jarvis, went faster still. Over the years, the balace of power in the 1300cc class went from Peter Baldwin to Alan Humberstone, back to PB, then to David Enderby until he moved up another class again, which left Peter back as the fastest 1300 once more, although I guess that most of the Demon Doctor's 1300cc lap records still stand.

Just as a suggestion, I think you need to add the up to 2500cc class that Special Saloons latterly had, so as to differentiate between the four cylinder Skodas, Escorts, BMWs, Firenzas and the like, and the real big bangers like Nick Whiting's GAA Escort, Baby Bertha, the Colin Hawker DFVW, and the like.

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

Fastest 2-litre was the Derek Walker Skoda LB14 I'd say.

A difficult one to call, because although I rate Derek very highly as a driver (particularly quick at Oulton Park), he didn't travel extensively, and I'm not sure whether his Skoda was a full two litre; it may have only been an 1850cc BDE. Also, I'm not sure that his chassis was quite as good as some of his Lola- and Chevron-based opposition.

[haggispeed]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

A difficult one to call, because although I rate Derek very highly as a driver (particularly quick at Oulton Park), he didn't travel extensively, and I'm not sure whether his Skoda was a full two litre; it may have only been an 1850cc BDE. Also, I'm not sure that his chassis was quite as good as some of his Lola- and Chevron-based opposition.

And he's still extremely quick at Oulton, I chatted with him at the Gold Cup this year, because of problems he qualified his Terrier 26th and ended up finishing 2nd !!. I'm still in touch with him and he's bringing out one of his Ladybird Clubmans cars in Classic Clubmans next year.

[big andy]

was bob jarvis in or did he have a 1200cc imp? ok clive whats your list ?

[Dan Rear]

Interesting chaps, but I recall DW setting a new record at Mallory with LB14, faster than any other saloon ever round there, in 1980. However, at 46.9, it only equalled Nicky Ellis' modsports Elan time... And that time was with the Lotus motor, NOT the BDX he had installed for Donny GTs. I've no idea what the current MP saloon record is.

[big andy]

derek walker was quick in his skoda late 70s early 80s?but the aston of ellis and the last of sugdens skodas in the big boy class would have been a second or so a lap quicker round mallory

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by big andy

was bob jarvis in or did he have a 1200cc imp?

998cc. His Davrians usually used big Imp motors, but not AFAIK the Ray Imp. I believe Brian Cutting may have raced his Maguire car on occasions with a 1220cc, but never in a series of races against the likes of Baldwin and Enderby.

As for my own list, I'm still thinking about that. Of all the names I've seen on this and other threads, one name I've never seen was Alex Clacher, who was immensely quick in a very light tin Imp for a few years. Originally best known for his battles with the Mini-Fords of Andy Barton and Sedric Bell, he once came to Brands, and was quicker than John Homewood was (albeit in a different race) on the same day.

One more thing- Dave Ellis's Aston couldn't have been a Special Saloon, surely- more a GT.

[paulSenna]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

One more thing- Dave Ellis's Aston couldn't have been a Special Saloon, surely- more a GT.

And from there it's just a small step to the Donington GTs with the likes of Lancia 037 with a F2 Toleman underneath or BMW M1 with a F5000 Chevron beneath.

[big andy]

yes i supose the astin is more of a special GT so remove it from the list special saloons only .move sugden to top and bring colin hawkers dfvw or nick whitting 3.4gaa escort to third

Alex Clacher was very quick in his steel imp so were the minis of bell,barton but these were early steel special saloons of the early 1970s there times round croft were slow compared to geoff farmer in the adelfi imp of only 2/3 years later .the homewood car im thinking of is the later s/framed car was he the fastest of the impers or were there faster

yes some of the special GT cars from the donnington championship were probley faster but a lot of these cars did not compley to special saloon regs of the time

[big andy]

[QUOTE
Just as a suggestion, I think you need to add the up to 2500cc class that Special Saloons latterly had, so as to differentiate between the four cylinder Skodas, Escorts, BMWs, Firenzas and the like, and the real big bangers like Nick Whiting's GAA Escort, Baby Bertha, the Colin Hawker DFVW, and the like.[/QUOTE]

the class structure was how ive split it clive later thunder saloons were split upto and over 2500cc and super saloons were special saloons over 1600cc??

[Clive Brown]

No; the RAC Special Saloon Car regulations, to which the Wendy Wools Championship was run, had the five classes.