Newbie - ish questions for V8 buffs

[Graz]

Can I ask some of you V8 vets some questions about the Aussie V8's. I've always been somewhat interested in the Australian Touring Car scene since I managed to see the whole of the 1987 season where Jim Richards and Glen Seton had a great battle. This year, I got satellite tv and was able to follow the season on Motors TV over here. So here goes;

The same guys seem to be at the front all the time and there are only a handful of guys who seem to be able to win - are there major differences between the cars or is it a case that some teams are better than others? Just one example, on in-car shots, some guys seem never to use the clutch for downshifts whereas others don't which leads me to believe there are car differences.

The control v sprint tyre. Whats the thinkingbehind this? It splits the race up from the get go and seems to spoil head to head combat. I don't like it at all and seems too manufactured to me. Was this a new rule this year and what do you guys think of it?

The season seems to be too long and spread out. Would it be better if it ended at Bathurst in October?

I have a feeling that the series is modelling itself more and more on NASCAR. I don't think this is a good thing. Am I way off?

What's the power output of these cars? Is it really 650 bhp from a 5 litre V8 engine?

Why do the cars not spit flames the way they used to? I thought that looked really cool.

Thanks in advance!!

[ForumNick]

Hi Graz, welcome to the world of V8 Supercars.

To answer some of your questions:

The same guys seem to be at the front all the time and there are only a handful of guys who seem to be able to win - are there major differences between the cars or is it a case that some teams are better than others?

Other than 'set-up' there are no 'major differences' between the cars. It is a controlled 'parity' series. There are however major differences in the teams, which mostly comes down to $$$$$s available. Teams with big budgets invariable do better - there's an old quote from the 1970s: "There is no substitute for cubic dollars!"

some guys seem never to use the clutch for downshifts

The series uses six speed Hollinger gearboxes with sequential shifters. Mostly what you're referring to is 'driving style' There is certainly no need to use the clutch on upchanges (the boxes have electronic 'shift cuts' ). Some drivers 'match' the engine revs to downshift without the clutch. Similar to some 'left foot' braking.

The control v sprint tyre

Yes it was a new rule for 2009. I agree with you about it being 'manufactured'. Its only used in certain 'rounds' & not others. The silly thing is, that each car only gets one set of the sprint tyre for a weekend (2 separate races) & it's basically a 'guess/lottery' as to when to use it.

The season seems to be too long and spread out

I think the problem is that there are long gaps between some rounds, then we get 3 in 4 weeks - then another long gap. In 2010 we will be having a 2 month mid-season' break (but no-one seems to know why!)

What's the power output of these cars? Is it really 650 bhp from a 5 litre V8 engine?

Yes!

Why do the cars not spit flames the way they used to?

This year is the first year of using E85 fuel - it's a blend of 85% ethanol + 15% unleaded petrol. The cars actually still 'spit flames' it's just that the ethanol burns with a 'blue' flame & is more difficult to see in daylight.





I hope this helps you to understand & enjoy our series better.

[Rombles1]

Same guys up the front? There are some car differences, but mostly team and driver differences. Some guys like to use the clutch, some don't. Some teams can take a crap car and make it good, where some other teams can take a good car and make it crap ("engineer all the speed out of it" is a common accusation leveled at one particular team). There are no hopeless drivers in V8 Supercars. However there ARE some who would not be there if it were not for the money they have access to. Even Mark McNally who was consistently slowest all year, would probably be able to wipe the floor with most of us. He's not hopeless, but he isn't in the same league as the guys up the front. He isn't in a great car either, but there are some drivers (one of his team-mates, in particular) who are able to drive around the problems with a crap car and still get a decent result.

Control vs sprint tyre - new this year, and I believe abandonned for next year. I actually liked that one.

Ending the season at Bathurst? Hmmmm I don't have a problem with a long season - I just wish they would get a consistent gap between rounds. The idea of ending the season at Bathurst is likely to inspire another round of the old "should Bathurst be part of the championship" debate that seems to spark up every time there is half an excuse.

V8SC trying to be NASCAR? Tony Cochrane, who runs V8SC, is normally accused of trying to be Bernie Ecclestone rather than Tony George, but I suspect that you are probably right about them aspiring to be like NASCAR. NASCAR is pretty successful, so trying to copy that element probably isn't a bad thing. There are other bits that should be left for the Good Ol' Boys over in the US of A.... some like it, some don't.

Power? Yes, 650-ish BHP from a 5L V8. The noise they make on the starting grid..... OMFG!

Flames? Apparently they DO still spit flames, unfortunately they are clear flames due to the amount of ethanol in the fuel they use now.

No doubt I will be corrected on some of this.

[anthony81901]

Originally Posted by Graz

The same guys seem to be at the front all the time and there are only a handful of guys who seem to be able to win - are there major differences between the cars or is it a case that some teams are better than others? Just one example, on in-car shots, some guys seem never to use the clutch for downshifts whereas others don't which leads me to believe there are car differences.

As in every form of motorsport, the bigger, better resourced teams tend to dominate. The cars all have the same Hollinger gearbox, clutch use is more an individual driver thing.

The control v sprint tyre. Whats the thinkingbehind this? It splits the race up from the get go and seems to spoil head to head combat. I don't like it at all and seems too manufactured to me. Was this a new rule this year and what do you guys think of it?

Sprint tyre was introduced this year to try and add another variable. The concept has fans and detractors amongst both drivers and fans.

The season seems to be too long and spread out. Would it be better if it ended at Bathurst in October?

Historically the calendar has seen gaps of 2-4 weeks between events with a 12-15 week summer off-season. Next year rounds are being held every 2-3 weeks with a 8 week winter break and 9 week summer off season. Up until 2000, Bathurst was usually the final event of the season, but now that is has been incorporated into the championship the opportunity has been taken to extend the season. October and November are fairly quiet times for sport in Australia with the football codes finishing in September and the cricket and golf seasons not starting until November.

I have a feeling that the series is modelling itself more and more on NASCAR. I don't think this is a good thing. Am I way off?

Aside from running push rod V8s not really, although obviously they would love to have the level of interest Nascar attracts.

What's the power output of these cars? Is it really 650 bhp from a 5 litre V8 engine?

Yes

Why do the cars not spit flames the way they used to? I thought that looked really cool.

This year there was a switch to E85 fuel (85% ethanol, 15% unleaded) and the ethanol burns in a different way.

[emjaya]

Originally Posted by Graz

The same guys seem to be at the front all the time and there are only a handful of guys who seem to be able to win - are there major differences between the cars or is it a case that some teams are better than others? Just one example, on in-car shots, some guys seem never to use the clutch for downshifts whereas others don't which leads me to believe there are car differences.

No difference in the cars, just some teams are better than others and some drivers are more sympathetic to the machinery than others.

Walkinshaw is (or was, Triple Eight switches to Holden next year) the only Holden team capable of winning a championship. With Ford, it was Triple Eight, remains to be seen if FPR or Stone Bros can challenge them.
Every other team is just there to make up the numbers, occasionlly picking up a win here and there but nothing consistent over a year.

Originally Posted by Graz

The control v sprint tyre. Whats the thinkingbehind this? It splits the race up from the get go and seems to spoil head to head combat. I don't like it at all and seems too manufactured to me. Was this a new rule this year and what do you guys think of it?

It is the same as in F1: make the racing more "exciting." It doesn't work, imho, because the sprint tyre needs to be softer with more grip, and the sprint tyre needs to have less grip and last longer.

Originally Posted by Graz

The season seems to be too long and spread out. Would it be better if it ended at Bathurst in October?

I think they should race all year round.

Originally Posted by Graz

I have a feeling that the series is modelling itself more and more on NASCAR. I don't think this is a good thing. Am I way off?

Yes, they do seem to be watching the NASCAR broadcasts very closely.
A good thing? They could carve a hour or two out of some of those broadcasts.

Originally Posted by Graz

What's the power output of these cars? Is it really 650 bhp from a 5 litre V8 engine?

650 horsepower.

Originally Posted by Graz

Why do the cars not spit flames the way they used to? I thought that looked really cool.

It looked cool, but wasted fuel and every drop counts.

Originally Posted by Graz

Thanks in advance!!

Anytime.

[anthony81901]

Originally Posted by ForumNick

In 2010 we will be having a 2 month mid-season' break (but no-one seems to know why!)

So everyone can go on fact finding jollies to Europe & the US in the northern summer.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Graz

What's the power output of these cars? Is it really 650 bhp from a 5 litre V8 engine?

Some teams are quoting 700 hp now.

It's pretty crappy hp/L compared to the BTCC isn't it?

9000 rpm would see them fly...

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Graz

I have a feeling that the series is modelling itself more and more on NASCAR. I don't think this is a good thing. Am I way off?

Race format says no.

Single 250 mile Sunday feature race, with 75 L fuel tank, with one winner would be better for fans IMHO. 4 races at Indy was such a non-event...

(Fujitsus could be the main televised event on the Saturday of the meeting, even if it was on 7TWO it would be fantastic for that class.)

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by Rombles1

V8SC trying to be NASCAR? Tony Cochrane, who runs V8SC, is normally accused of trying to be Bernie Ecclestone rather than Tony George

Originally Posted by Rombles1

No doubt I will be corrected on some of this.

you mean the France family, rather than the George Family

[Graz]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Some teams are quoting 700 hp now.

It's pretty crappy hp/L compared to the BTCC isn't it?

9000 rpm would see them fly...

Thanks for all the answers guys.

Just on the revs, it looks as though they don't rev much above 7,800. Is there a rev limit or is this a fuel save/engine save self imposed limit?

[ForumNick]

Category mandated - electronically limited to 7,500 RPM

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Some teams are quoting 700 hp now.

It's pretty crappy hp/L compared to the BTCC isn't it?

9000 rpm would see them fly...

9000 rpm would see them fly. Engine budgets would skyrocket due to the lack of longevity and the more fragile nature that higher revs offer. And don't start quoting F1's 19,000 rpm as those aren't engines as we know it

You would have so much horsepower that you would be running 3.15 diffs everywhere that you currently run a 3.70 diff just to have half a hope of getting power to the road whilst limiting wheel spin.

Good luck.....and Santa's been so you are a bit late there

[Gaz170]

My view is that if they want to reduce costs, a 6 litre engine running lower revs might be a way to go.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Just Do It!

And don't start quoting F1's 19,000 rpm as those aren't engines as we know it

They're warp engines powered by dilintihium crystals.