Group B MG Metro 6R4 History

[Kevin McCann]

Originally Posted by gas305

Great news!! As much as we love that insane noise of your subaru, its no match for the howl of a 6r4 coming up hairy hill!! Wonder if George Tracey still has his one??

If sex was a noise then a 6r4 would be the king!!! As for Georges car i think he still has it. The ex Guys car i sold (gave away nearly) to Terry ended up at Georges, this is now in the UK being converted back into a rallycar.

[bigears]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Both Reg Nos C97 KOG and C874 EUD were correct for Pete Slights and Peter Lloyd's Birmingham Superprix entries - the other numbers stated were different cars using the same Reg No sequences, often referred to as 'sister cars'.

Ah, that's ok then so my research is fine. I am wondering if you got anything about the Metro 6R4's involvement at the Birmingham Superprix in 1988 and 1989?

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by KA

20. Harri Toivonen/Neil Wilson: RED?/Unipart (C98KOG-works or RED-run car?)

Toivenen did indeed use a Cowley car for this event, but it was C96 KOG that he used - Wilson's ex-Corsica car.

Due to the large numbers of Cowley cars contesting this event, ARWCT would likely have 'borrowed' some of the staff from either Schmidt or R-E-D anyway, as they certainly wouldn't have had enough manpower to run all of their cars by themselves.

The ARWCT also won the Team Prize on the 1986 RAC Rally - partly due to the fact of Pond 6th, Eklund 7th, McRae 8th, Llewellin 9th and Wilson 17th, but mainly due to the fact that Peugeot forgot to enter their team for it!

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by KA

Five cars with 'C9xKOG' registrations- 2 debuted in Portugal with Pond (C95KOG) and Wilson (C96KOG)...

I'm sure you meant to say Corsica instead of Portugal?

You're pretty much spot on with your count of Cowley cars KA...

THREE A registered prototype 'NJO' rally cars - A656 > 658 NJO
TWO B registered pre-production / pre-homologation 'XUD' rally cars - B196 > 197 XUD.
FOUR C registered International 'EUD' rally cars - C867 > 870 EUD.
ONE (odd one out!) C registered International 'FFC' rally car - C818 FFC.
SIX C registered International 'KOG' rally cars - there were two cars with C95 KOG plate fitted to it - C95 (x2) > 99 KOG...

...makes 16 in total by my reckoning.

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by gas305

I am sure you know this MGRS that the C84RBD reg number mentioned above is on the back of Lawrence Gibsons Rallycross car. I really hope he will continue this season with it as my son has become obsessed with this car!!! I really wish we were back in the hayday of 6r4`s in Rallycross and wish i`d have made more of that awesome era. Great to here that so many are still alive!

Indeed it has 'gas305', but that wasn't the actual car that Jimmy McRae and Billy Coleman used in 1986. The 'real' C84 RBD was sold to Norway for rallycross in 1987.

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by Kevin McCann

When we collected the car from Gary it was noted that the colours were the same as his window company's vehicles. We assumed it was so and Guy liked the theme so we used it as was.

I'm not wishing to doubt you for one little minute Kevin, but what was your involvement in it all at the time? Were you part of Guy's team?

You're right about the livery, as I recall seeing Gary's service barge - red / white with Frames Windows down the side.

I am pleased to hear that Lawrence will be out in his car during the year.

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by Kevin McCann

David Gillanders and i understand Malcolm Wilson cars were run or certainly developed by Gartrac, as were a lot of the works cars.

David Gillanders' car was not a works car in any form - either built / run by Cowley, or even funded by Cowley. Certainly, after Austin Rover Motorsport closed in May 1987, Gillanders had the use of the Cowley test car for the remainder of the season.

I don't thing Gartrac developed the works cars as such, but more likely were involved with the shell preparation of the Cowley cars whilst the team concentrated on the actual assembly, development and running of the cars during the season. Matter in Germany also prepared some of the shells for Cowley.

Gillanders car was certainly run by Gartrac, and indeed they built the MG Montego Turbo for him to use a couple of years later as well.

[Kevin McCann]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

I'm not wishing to doubt you for one little minute Kevin, but what was your involvement in it all at the time? Were you part of Guy's team?

You're right about the livery, as I recall seeing Gary's service barge - red / white with Frames Windows down the side.

I am pleased to hear that Lawrence will be out in his car during the year.

I was Guys mechanic at this time, I bought the metro and used it on the road before selling it to Terry. THEN i got the bug for driving, would have kept the metro.

[MG Rover Sport]

Many thanks for the clarification Kevin - I never knew there was another owner between Guy and Terry.

[KA]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Toivenen did indeed use a Cowley car for this event, but it was C96 KOG that he used - Wilson's ex-Corsica car.

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

I'm sure you meant to say Corsica instead of Portugal?

You're pretty much spot on with your count of Cowley cars KA...

You noticed my inability to read my own notes then....

Thanks for the clarification- certainly hadn't realised that there were two 'C95KOG's- though it doesn't come as a surprise, as it seems to have been pretty much common practice for most UK based factory rally teams to recycle registration numbers

A couple more pics from the web- '86 National Breakdown. David Llewellyn's C996LCA, and a close-up of some body damage on the Jimmy McRae Rothmans car
http://picasaweb.google.com/doneykeb...73678039026274
http://picasaweb.google.com/doneykeb...73742463535730

...and Cadwell Rallycross 1988- Steve Palmer
http://picasaweb.google.com/doneykeb...34838203895586
Michael Shield
http://picasaweb.google.com/doneykeb...35482448990226
http://picasaweb.google.com/doneykeb...35525398663202
and red/white car #110- Richard Hutton maybe?
http://picasaweb.google.com/doneykeb...34962757947218

As I said, I'll take a look through my old rallycross pics from 1989 onwards, I ought to have a fair selection of the main the UK and Irish 6R4 competitors, Will Gollop, Palmer, Shield, Hutton, Rob Gibson, Aidan Creegan, Dermot Carnegie, John Moloney, Vic Moyce, Mike Turpin, Tom Bissett, Lawrence Gibson, Guy Williams etc, and some of the Europeans

[KA]

Just found these as well- the prototype
http://picasaweb.google.com/fomenkoa...58848827781490
http://picasaweb.google.com/fomenkoa...58904662356370
http://picasaweb.google.com/fomenkoa...58750043533618
http://picasaweb.google.com/fomenkoa...58921842225570

from an album of early 80's Williams F1 pics
http://picasaweb.google.com/fomenkoa...781984Williams#

[MG Rover Sport]

A cracking brace of posts there KA - with a couple of photos that I hadn't seen before... ...shock horror!

Looking at the following photo - taken outside Austin Rover Motorsport @ Cowley - and 'lifted' from the same picasaweb.google.com gallery that you linked to KA...



...I thought you might be interested to see is currently gathering dust in my loft - virtually two complete sets of bodywork from the VERY FIRST Williams designed MG Metro 6R4 prototype shown above...



The panels in white are brand new, the red panels (with stickers still applied) are from No 001 : A656 NJO. This car was shown at the February 1984 launch of the car fitted with the earlier rounded-style bodywork, whereas No 002 : A657 NJO was fitted with the later squarer-style bodywork, exactly as it debuted a month later on the 1984 York National Rally.

A656 NJO appeared on the Austin Rover stand at the 1984 Geneva Motor Show in March, but since the previous month's launch the bodywork had been updated to the later squarer-style bodywork. The panels shown in the above photo were the ones removed from A656 NJO - forget questionable Gp2 Capris with square arches, this is the real McCoy!

[KA]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

A cracking brace of posts there KA - with a couple of photos that I hadn't seen before... ...shock horror!

...I thought you might be interested to see is currently gathering dust in my loft - virtually two complete sets of bodywork from the VERY FIRST Williams designed MG Metro 6R4 prototype shown above...


The panels in white are brand new, the red panels (with stickers still applied) are from No 001 : A656 NJO. This car was shown at the February 1984 launch of the car fitted with the earlier rounded-style bodywork, whereas No 002 : A657 NJO was fitted with the later squarer-style bodywork, exactly as it debuted a month later on the 1984 York National Rally.

A656 NJO appeared on the Austin Rover stand at the 1984 Geneva Motor Show in March, but since the previous month's launch the bodywork had been updated to the later squarer-style bodywork. The panels shown in the above photo were the ones removed from A656 NJO - forget questionable Gp2 Capris with square arches, this is the real McCoy!

Now that's a find! Much more interesting than anything gathering dust in my loft... All you need now is a Metro shell, a V64V....(didn't the prototypes use an engine built up around a cut & shut Rover V8 block until the proper V6 was ready?)

[MG Rover Sport]

Cheers for the recognition of my loft trove KA - just such a pity that the good lady doesn't feel the same way about it all eh? Why can't they understand, and simply appreciate these things as we do!

The final homologated 6R4 bodyshell was virtually identical to the Williams design - except for the longer wheelbase, and extensions to the turret tops for the increased suspension travel that the final cars ended up with.

Your idea of 'simply' obtaining a 6R4 shell and engine has also crossed my mind - in fact almost regularly on a Saturday night as I sit down with my little bit of pink / white paper in one hand, a pen in the other hand checking one number at a time! Ho hum, maybe next Saturday...

The first three prototypes did indeed use cut down Rover V8 engines. By simply cutting through the centre of two adjacent cylinders, welding the 'bits' back together again, and machining as necessary, they were left with a 2.5 litre Rover V6. Fitted with downdraught Weber carbs, power was approx 250 bhp which was perfectly fine to test out all of the systems in the car until the 3 litre V64V engine would be ready.

Also, some of the 'cut & shut' V6 engines were actually cast as such, and indeed fuel injection was also tried in testing on various occasions. I assume a lot of the Rover Group A technology could be applied to these development engines.

[RGM]

A20 ROV is here in sweden, I think Carl Broad (ran it previously).

Also stumbled over the metro that was at one time in mini-sports (or was it mini-bits) livery and adverts, on a Q plate in Teneriffe... owned by Fernando Capdevila. He also owns the ex rothmans car that was run in the middle east and later rallycrossed by Hans Te Pas....

The rothmans car that went to norway is still there, i gave it a bare shell rebuild in 1993 for Jan Iversen, it sat in his collection unused until 2-3 uears ago when he passed away and it was sold to Åge Flugre, I've he blew the Nelson Engines 3,5 liter motor and the car has fallen into a state of disrepair....

Finally.... Birmingham Superprix... Sam Nelsons E264AAM (?) was there, i don't remember where we finished... but that car was the gaydon thermal developement car with beefed up chassis and unusual coolant pipe routing....
that car was sold to Liam McCarthy in Cork (?) and later got rebuilt by Dave Appleby....

My memory fails me, but if i find my notebooks from the late 80's early 90's i'll post more info.

mike at racing-green.com