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Old 23 Jun 2011, 14:03   #796
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on the other hand the group building the track believe that one of the purposes of this state event fund is to provide funds to events which will in turn generate enough additional taxes to offset the state's contribution. in an ideal world it will be at minimum a revenue neutral subsidy....this of course remains to be seen.

what we do know is that so far they haven't received any gov't money, yet the owners/developers are still going ahead with construction. i imagine a lot of people have already dug deep into their own pockets to start building something that only has positive implications for motor sports at large in the region. so far all the money which has been spent is theirs and still they get condemned for trying to get access to public money which is only there for events like this. go figure!

one would hope that they have a plan in place to borrow the money in case the state backs out. if their numbers are to be believed (even half believed) then they should have no problem securing the additional funds and in the end may be able to secure a better deal from BE (something comparable to Montreal's sanction fees) because they are on their own and F1 needs a race in the USA.
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 14:21   #797
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one would hope that they have a plan in place to borrow the money in case the state backs out. if their numbers are to be believed (even half believed) then they should have no problem securing the additional funds and in the end may be able to secure a better deal from BE (something comparable to Montreal's sanction fees) because they are on their own and F1 needs a race in the USA.
No chance of getting a better deal from Bernie now. That ship has sailed.

The way that Montreal got a better deal ($15M/year vs. Austin's $25-30M/year) was to call Bernie's bluff when he tried to triple their rights fee after the 2008 race. Montreal told Bernie they could live without F1 and so they lost the race in 2009.

A year later, under pressure from the teams and the falling popularity of races in nontraditional locations, Bernie realized that F1 needed Montreal more than Montreal needed F1 and so he had to give Montreal the same deal ($15M/year) that it had offered during the negotiations in 2008. I think it's the only time in Bernie's life that he lost a negotiation.

Now that the track is under construction and the investors have sunk a lot of money into it, Bernie has them in his pocket. Presumably, he also has a contract stating that his rights fee will be $25-30M. The exact number is not sure because it's not clear if Bernie gets just the $25M from the state or the $25M plus the $4M from the city or the promoter.
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 14:25   #798
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It cannot be good news for Tavo when the editor of a major American car magazine like Autoweek warns the city that it is making a big mistake getting into bed with a man like Bernie.

An Open Letter to the Austin, Texas, City Council and the citizens of that fair city

By DUTCH MANDEL on 6/22/2011

As the editorial director of America's largest racing magazine and a guy who has grown up around racing and racers, who has worked for a professional race team and who was weaned on horsepower and Castrol fumes, I have two words for the Austin City Council and its constituents before Thursday's vote to bless the proposed 2012 Austin Grand Prix:

Run away...
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 14:43   #799
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It cannot be good news for Tavo when the editor of a major American car magazine like Autoweek warns the city that it is making a big mistake getting into bed with a man like Bernie.

An Open Letter to the Austin, Texas, City Council and the citizens of that fair city

By DUTCH MANDEL on 6/22/2011

As the editorial director of America's largest racing magazine and a guy who has grown up around racing and racers, who has worked for a professional race team and who was weaned on horsepower and Castrol fumes, I have two words for the Austin City Council and its constituents before Thursday's vote to bless the proposed 2012 Austin Grand Prix:

Run away...
You just don't give up do you?
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 15:27   #800
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From the Statesman today 22 June 2011. "Local lawsuit filed against state’s Formula One subsidy". The legal brief filed: http://bit.ly/iBqGWZ. The comments: http://bit.ly/jZRvBJ.

What we have here is: Who's money is it? There will definitely be losers here.

To be continued...
According to some of the comments posted about the Statesman.com article, the Austin City Council is to have a vote on F1 'tomorrow'. These comments were posted on the 22nd of June so the vote is today and its outcome can be followed here:

http://twitter.com/#!/statesmanf1
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 15:29   #801
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You just don't give up do you?
This is the 2nd most popular thread in the 10-Tenths F1 forum over the last year (currently 798 replies and 37,856 views). As evidenced by this week's news, it's a topic that's very much an ongoing story. In case you don't understand, 10-Tenths is an Internet forum whose purpose is to facilitate open discussion and exchange of opinions about all things motor racing. I'm expressing my opinion. You're free to offer your own opinions on this topic. No matter how frequently or forcefully you do so, I won't ask you to "give up." If you want nothing but feel-good comments and opinions about the proposed Austin F1 race, there's a Facebook group for that.
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 15:57   #802
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No chance of getting a better deal from Bernie now. That ship has sailed.

The way that Montreal got a better deal ($15M/year vs. Austin's $25-30M/year) was to call Bernie's bluff when he tried to triple their rights fee after the 2008 race. Montreal told Bernie they could live without F1 and so they lost the race in 2009.

A year later, under pressure from the teams and the falling popularity of races in nontraditional locations, Bernie realized that F1 needed Montreal more than Montreal needed F1 and so he had to give Montreal the same deal ($15M/year) that it had offered during the negotiations in 2008. I think it's the only time in Bernie's life that he lost a negotiation.
I think the USGP leaving Indianapolis went the same way. Bernie tried to up the rights fee and George said no and walked away. F1 resolution going on now by the way, if you go to bjohnsonsmith's Twitter link the latest tweet provides an audio link.
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 16:08   #803
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No chance of getting a better deal from Bernie now. That ship has sailed.
do we know that? this is not BE's first rodeo so he knows in life you always have to renegotiate and once you are there you can make more than what you gave up at the bargaining table. hence some places get better deals.

he has renegotiated with Montreal and Silverstone with his tail between his legs, he has with Spa and the German races, understandably Monaco gets a free ride, he wont pay his own fees for Paul Ricard so will ultimately make a deal with the French, never hear complaints from Italy about it so they must have a great deal already, circumstances in Japan justify financial help there, and at some point he will have to expect less money from the Australians if for no other reason than maintaining sanity at ten-tenths. one could say BE loves to renegotiate.
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 16:20   #804
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bernie does like to renegotiate but in all the cases you mentioned, hasn't he had the opportunity to pretend, even to just himself, that he's scored a victory? he thinks he defeated silverstone because he finally got them to rebuild the pit building when in fact he brought donington to its knees, turned the british f1 scene into a bit of a farce and trashed silverstone itself in the process. never mind that, bernie got what he wanted...

as such the best way of getting him to renegotiate with the organisers of the us gp would be to put out some press releases denying some form of issue he had raised was in fact an issue, create a few rumours then return to mr e with cap in hand making like you were doing him a favour?
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 16:45   #805
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bernie does like to renegotiate but in all the cases you mentioned, hasn't he had the opportunity to pretend, even to just himself, that he's scored a victory? he thinks he defeated silverstone because he finally got them to rebuild the pit building when in fact he brought donington to its knees, turned the british f1 scene into a bit of a farce and trashed silverstone itself in the process. never mind that, bernie got what he wanted...

as such the best way of getting him to renegotiate with the organisers of the us gp would be to put out some press releases denying some form of issue he had raised was in fact an issue, create a few rumours then return to mr e with cap in hand making like you were doing him a favour?
In the case of Silverstone I think Bernie had no option but to give them the GP after ruining Donington. It was coming up for the 50th anniversary of F1 and the British GP, which was first held at Silverstone in 1950 and the first F1 GP, so I think not having a British GP at all would have been a major PR faux pas on Bernie's part and Bernie can never be seen to be wrong. As it is Silverstone have secured the race for 17 years and they pay the reduced fee because of its historical significance.
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 17:29   #806
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do we know that? this is not BE's first rodeo so he knows in life you always have to renegotiate and once you are there you can make more than what you gave up at the bargaining table. hence some places get better deals.

he has renegotiated with Montreal and Silverstone with his tail between his legs, he has with Spa and the German races, understandably Monaco gets a free ride, he wont pay his own fees for Paul Ricard so will ultimately make a deal with the French, never hear complaints from Italy about it so they must have a great deal already, circumstances in Japan justify financial help there, and at some point he will have to expect less money from the Australians if for no other reason than maintaining sanity at ten-tenths. one could say BE loves to renegotiate.
NO SLAM CHILLI. Just using your words.

Let's not forget it is now the summer of 2011. That's right, one year from an F1 race in Austin, Texas. Now someone is going to decide this funding (who will raid the general fund of the state of Texas) as a distressed buyer to save face. BE just has to sit back and watch and collect the check.

There is a light shining on these current legal procedures and it is this.
You are seeing what the financial dealings of putting an f1 show together in America are really like even before the green flag drops. When it is over we should know what politicians put it to the taxpayers of Texas.

No wonder this thing disappeared from Indianapolis, Indiana.
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 18:43   #807
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A corrected link to the Autoweek.com editorial:

As the editorial director of America's largest racing magazine and a guy who has grown up around racing and racers, who has worked for a professional race team and who was weaned on horsepower and Castrol fumes, I have two words for the Austin City Council and its constituents before Thursday's vote to bless the proposed 2012 Austin Grand Prix:

Run away.


Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2011...#ixzz1Q7jhlZkM
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 20:16   #808
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The Austin, Texas city counsel meeting is live if you want to watch it. The vote is fast approaching and many world viewers are causing the servers for this dog and pony show to crash. Personally, I cannot make any kind of opinion on this matter at this time. Stream: http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/channel6/

Last edited by ujoint; 23 Jun 2011 at 20:45.
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 20:36   #809
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bernie does like to renegotiate but in all the cases you mentioned, hasn't he had the opportunity to pretend, even to just himself, that he's scored a victory?
yes, he certainly likes looking the part of benevolent dictator.

unfortunately the dictator puts on a wonderful show every couple of weeks and so him winning usually also results in me winning as well. i can live with that.
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Old 23 Jun 2011, 20:37   #810
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ujoint, sweet link
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