[LMS] Audi R18 (including Cake Analysis)

[Tim the Grey]

Like it or not, I suspect that article reflects the way the public see motorsport.
F1, Saloon Cars, Le Mans.
Everything else, is obscure, and relatively unknown.

Which means ACO/SRO/FIA have a huge OPPORTUNITY to grow that market. The best way, IMHO, is a WORLD title for Sports Cars. That would rank up there with a Le Mans win.
Blame Bernie for stopping the last lot, back in Group C days, when there was a danger that people might notice Sportscar Racing was better than F1!

But it will be a long haul, and folk had better sell it that way, or it will implode...

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Like it or not, I suspect that article reflects the way the public see motorsport.
F1, Saloon Cars, Le Mans.
Everything else, is obscure, and relatively unknown.

Which means ACO/SRO/FIA have a huge OPPORTUNITY to grow that market. The best way, IMHO, is a WORLD title for Sports Cars. That would rank up there with a Le Mans win.
Blame Bernie for stopping the last lot, back in Group C days, when there was a danger that people might notice Sportscar Racing was better than F1!

But it will be a long haul, and folk had better sell it that way, or it will implode...

IMO Lemans has the potential to be better than F1. Certainly from a manufacturers viewpoint a Lemans effort is 1/10 the cost of an F1 effort. Lemans has the potential to make F1 look downright silly especially in these economic times, and with looking to reduce our carbon footprint. We have Audi's and Peugeots doing 50 lap stints on tires at Lemans while F1 cars can barely make 13 laps at the average grandprix on soft tires. With the Michelin Green Challenge initiative and of course the tyre development for road cars being tested in Lemans racing. Along with all the road car relevant technology being used in Lemans(Audi Ultra Light, TDI engines, HDI FAP engines,LED's, Michelin Tires, Hankook tires, Dunlop Tires. Hybrif technology of course. I'm expecting a huge bloom for Lemans racing in the near future.

The problem is going to be performance balancing. I like the idea where you are given a certain amount of energy. We know that if Toyota comes back they are going to be doing it with a Hybrid. (I cant fathom a toyota LMP that isn't a hybrid.)


Keep an eye out for Renault in my opinion. Renault is a direct competitor to Peugeot and i doubt they are enjoying all of the french publicity that peugeot recieves. They've basically said they werent happy with the new engine regs V4's, And even though they compromised on V6 engines.....Renault looks like they have had one foot out the door of F1 ever since Robert Kubica's accident.

[gwyllion]

McNish raring to go for Imola (autosport.com)

[chernaudi]

Audi Sport Imola preview:

http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publi...cle_6962.shtml

Cliff notes version:

New cars fitted with a higher downforce package (presumably what was tested at Monza, or some variant of it).

And no mostly black #1 Audi like at Spa and Le Mans: The #1 will run the #2's LM markings (silver/black with red highlights) and the #2 will run the #3's LM markings (silver/black with yellow highlights).

For all those who didn't like the LM #1 Audi's color scheme, well, you won't see it again for the rest of the ILMC season it seems (though the LM #1 Audi is shown in the PR piece).

And Audi apperantly tested their HD package at Monza (in May) and during the past week at EuroSpeedway after the DTM race.

[helgi]

I'm not sure if this question was already discussed here, but a friend of mine noticed that before Porsche Curves a part of nose that is close to the front window was raising a little bit. It's well seen from onboard video at day time. Maybe it's just not fixed panel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IXM0...layer_embedded

6.30-6.55

[chernaudi]

It was a shroud over the suspension pushrod bellcrank/nosebox fastener. It seemed to be a small piece of carbon that was mounted over the bellcrank/fastener to reduce drag, and is only lightly fastened (read: glued) to the catwalk between the nosebox and front fender.

It's a piece that reduces drag and is a fairing over those parts--the R15 had something similar as well.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

New cars fitted with a higher downforce package (presumably what was tested at Monza, or some variant of it).

For what it's worth now, I have confirmation that the new kit tested at Monza was the high downforce kit we'll see at Imola.

[chernaudi]

And not to cause bother, but doesn't Audi maybe have the ability to change out parts and pieces (especially on the nose) to effect the aero ballance (and this will also help answer a question that a previous poster had)?

I know from the Monza test that the diveplanes and such will interchange, but what about the catwalks between the front fenders and the nose box? It seems that they may be detachable, but perhaps not interchangeable. Which if that's the case, why make the panels detachable unless they may be used to change the set up?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

IMO Lemans has the potential to be better than F1. Certainly from a manufacturers viewpoint a Lemans effort is 1/10 the cost of an F1 effort. Lemans has the potential to make F1 look downright silly especially in these economic times, and with looking to reduce our carbon footprint. We have Audi's and Peugeots doing 50 lap stints on tires at Lemans while F1 cars can barely make 13 laps at the average grandprix on soft tires. With the Michelin Green Challenge initiative and of course the tyre development for road cars being tested in Lemans racing. Along with all the road car relevant technology being used in Lemans(Audi Ultra Light, TDI engines, HDI FAP engines,LED's, Michelin Tires, Hankook tires, Dunlop Tires. Hybrif technology of course. I'm expecting a huge bloom for Lemans racing in the near future.

The problem is going to be performance balancing. I like the idea where you are given a certain amount of energy. We know that if Toyota comes back they are going to be doing it with a Hybrid. (I cant fathom a toyota LMP that isn't a hybrid.)


Keep an eye out for Renault in my opinion. Renault is a direct competitor to Peugeot and i doubt they are enjoying all of the french publicity that peugeot recieves. They've basically said they werent happy with the new engine regs V4's, And even though they compromised on V6 engines.....Renault looks like they have had one foot out the door of F1 ever since Robert Kubica's accident.

I'd distance the WEC from competition with F1, the manufacture is practically irrelevant in F1, the focus is team and driver, a drinks manufacturer is currently the class of the field.

Historically, sportscar racing ranks alongside rallying as the discipline which provides manufactures with the strongest brand recognition, and technology transferral between track/stage and road. As other formulas embrace spec racing, and entertainment gimmicks, the difference in going to become ever larger.

[92scotland]

Interesting thing from the F1 forum. Adrian Newey says that the new turbo engines rule stuff was created after a request from Audi and as everyone wanted Audi to come into F1 they accepted. But Audi have now turned their back to F1, again.

[Aysedasi]

Sensible people, those Audians........

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Sensible people, those Audians........

Haha.
Otherwise it's just an old old rumor of Audi joining F1 catching up with Newey .

Personally i think we will see Porsche or Citroen join before Audi does.

[chernaudi]

Now a question about the R18's gearing.

From what I've heard/seen from the limited onboards I've seen, the R18 was using 1st gear at both Mulsanne and Arnage, and weren't changing into 6th until after passing through the first of the post Mulsanne kinks on the run to Indianapolis.

With the R8 (6 speed gearbox), Audi always used 2nd in those corners, and shifted before that kink, and with the R10 and R15 (5 speed), Audi again used 2nd in those corners, and shifted at the break in the guardrail before the kink. However, last year, the R15 shifted a little latter than that, and the R18 changed about 2-4 seconds after that, usually after the kink.

Was the R18 running taller gears to maximize fuel mileage or try to keep them close ratioed to keep the revs up (according to Audi TV's telemetry, the R18 was running between 3000-5000rpm, +/- a couple hundred rpm), or did they do what worked for Peugeot in the past, as the old 908 used similar shift points?

Or were Audi hoping to maximize accelleration (with the possibility of wheelspin as a penalty) with the reduced power or using input from the Super GT/GT drivers on their squads, as they've raced cars with similar power outputs and GT cars and know of their accelleration characteristics?

[henk4]

smaller engine, less torque (relatively) and therefore lower gears.....

[chernaudi]

I thought that taller gears had increased time between shifts?

Shorter gears=a faster climb in RPM, taller gears=a slower climb in RPM.

I think that the taller lower gears (1st-5th) were inteneded to keep the engine within a certain rev range, as Audi almost never used 1st except to get on/off pit road in the R8, which had a 6 speed gearbox, and power/torque levels similar to the R18, at least on paper (same power and maybe more torque, to be precise).

Of course, Audi in the R8 had such a dominant car that they could've afforded to run a really tall 6th gear for crusing and run shorter gears in the first 5 to get up to a certain speed. I think that Audi couldn't chance it against Peugeot, as the old 908 (because of it's 6 speed gearbox and gear staggering) had better high speed accelleration.

Interestingly, Speed reported during their broadcast that Baretzky initially pushed for a 5 speed gearbox like what the R10 and R15 had, but the drivers pushed for a 6 speed. Of course, the drivers had enough of being out top-ended by the 908, and a 6 speed does allow more room to stagger the gears and more options for a close ratio box. And one of the reasons why the 908 had better top end accelleration was more power and a 6 speed gearbox to use it.