[LMS] Audi R18

[chernaudi]

What I'm struggling to understand is why Audi was able to quad- and even 5 stint their tires (if it wasn't for a puncture, Audi would've likely have 5.5 stinted the tires on Lotterer's last stint) and was faster at LM than the 908, but have struggled elsewhere besides Sebring (and that was testing)?

Is the R18 really just a LM special, or did the new body kit though Audi a curve they didn't expect. Something really seems off about the car at Imola vs Le Mans or even Spa.

[The Badger]

5 stints is called quint stint .

[cdsvg]

Originally Posted by henk4

as of next year, you will be.
and yes it was R18-102 at Goodwood. And yes, the Audi people were less secretive than normal, I got shots of the engine, and very detailed shots of the gearbox.

Please do share!

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

Anyone else feel like Navi Team GOh is the least remembered of the past Lemans Winners

Yes, it was my favourite livery of all the R8s.

Originally Posted by chernaudi

What I'm struggling to understand is why Audi was able to quad- and even 5 stint their tires (if it wasn't for a puncture, Audi would've likely have 5.5 stinted the tires on Lotterer's last stint) and was faster at LM than the 908, but have struggled elsewhere besides Sebring (and that was testing)?

Is the R18 really just a LM special, or did the new body kit though Audi a curve they didn't expect. Something really seems off about the car at Imola vs Le Mans or even Spa.

Apart from the brake cooling issues, it simply seems that the car was set up in a higher DF config for speed through the corners, rather than straight line speed, which is a disadvantageous choice for dealing with traffic. Hence the inconsistent lap times compared to Peugeot.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by cdsavage

Please do share!

They will/may appear in our regular publications in due time. When that happens I'll post a link.

(In the sportscar threads here you cannot attach pictures to individual posts, but only use complicated systems like flickr etc. which I don't want to abuse)

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

What I'm struggling to understand is why Audi was able to quad- and even 5 stint their tires (if it wasn't for a puncture, Audi would've likely have 5.5 stinted the tires on Lotterer's last stint) and was faster at LM than the 908, but have struggled elsewhere besides Sebring (and that was testing)?

Is the R18 really just a LM special, or did the new body kit though Audi a curve they didn't expect. Something really seems off about the car at Imola vs Le Mans or even Spa.

But prior to Lemans Audi had an entire test day plus practice and qualy sessions at Lemans to dial the car into the track and find the optimum setup....

At Imola everyone struggled for dry track time....Seems more like Audi didn't nail the setup and therefore was more abrasive on the tires....

As well as the high downforce philosophy being hampered by traffic....

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

But prior to Lemans Audi had an entire test day plus practice and qualy sessions at Lemans to dial the car into the track and find the optimum setup....

At Imola everyone struggled for dry track time....Seems more like Audi didn't nail the setup and therefore was more abrasive on the tires....

As well as the high downforce philosophy being hampered by traffic....

Could the unthinkable be true hat perhaps Audi is not such a perfect team as many people seem to consider it to be??

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by henk4

Could the unthinkable be true that perhaps Audi is not such a perfect team as many people seem to consider it to be??

Yes.....thats what i said lol....They didn't get the setup right...Peugeot had the better setup at Imola...


Its' pretty obvious that who's faster at each race track depends on who has the better more consistent setup...The cars have proved to be pretty even as evidence by qualifying for all the ILMC rounds being soo close and the fastest race laps...

Why would the Peugeot 908 win at Spa, struggle at Lemans, And Win at Imola because it was an inferior car....
Why would the R18 struggle at Spa, win Lemans, and then struggle at Imola because it's an inferior car(yet at all three venues the fastest laps of all the cars was very very close).

I think the cars are dead even this year and the team that creates the more consistent setup is the one that wins at each track........The Peugeot is not slower than the Audi and the Audi is not slower than the Peugeot. We've seen that based on the fastest race laps etc.....Compare that to the old 908 vs the R15 or the R10 where you could tell the Audi was slower based on fastest race lap......That gap does not exist this year.

[Tim the Grey]

I suspect all the cars were running very hot brakes at Imola. Audi tried to 'manage' their issues.
I seem to recall the Pesca blowing the right front rotor out at Tamburello(?). Presumably, temperature related.
Therefore, one thinks that Pug got more air into their brakes, had a better set up for acceleration, and thus could handle traffic better. Catch up, and out brake.
The Audis did seem to struggle in traffic, hence TKs Gorilla-like overtakes at times...

[Tom87]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

I think the cars are dead even this year and the team that creates the more consistent setup is the one that wins at each track........The Peugeot is not slower than the Audi and the Audi is not slower than the Peugeot. We've seen that based on the fastest race laps etc.....Compare that to the old 908 vs the R15 or the R10 where you could tell the Audi was slower based on fastest race lap......That gap does not exist this year.

Agreed on this one, I don't think there is anything between them. As you say it's all been down to drivers, set-up and particular strengths of each car at each track.

The relentless reliability and speed of both cars this year has been so impressive. Both look to be a major step beyond the 908 Hdi and R15 - I imagine Porsche, Toyota or whoever else are waiting in the wings are setting aside some pretty sizeable budgets to reach this level of competitiveness...

[chernaudi]

All I can say is that when you're down 10km/h down the front straight (the best overtaking zone), you've either dialed the engine back (which I don't think that Audi would do, considering that it's survived being thrashed at the LM24 and in repeated 30 hour tests), or are carrying way too much drag.

I think that Audi gambled on Imola being a handling track, and opted for downforce. Peugeot, on the other hand, opted for straightline speed to maximize their ability to overtake on the front straight--which, as mentioned, was the best overtaking zone.

Audi had a dedicated HD aero kit that when tested, seemed to work fine, but that was on a clear track, and not in heavy traffic, where you need speed to work though it.

Allow me to draw a comparison between the old 908 and the Acura ARX-02. At Sebring much of the race week, the 908 and the Acura were capable of running similar lap times. The ARX-02 made it's time in the corners, the Pug down the straights. But that was on clear race track. If the Acura was passed by a 908 down the straights, the Pug can then control the Acura's cornering pace by being faster down the straights, and brake-checking it into the corners. And, it goes without saying, it's a lot easier to get down the straights and pass people than in the corners.

If you read the Audi press release, none of the drivers were entirely satisfied with the new aero package, and you can bet that being so far down on speed in a straight line was a big reason.

Better cornering ability is useful if can have the straightline speed to use it. Audi had that at LM, but didn't have it at Imola.

Hopefully that'll be a lesson to them to use a less draggy setup at Silverstone and the remaining rounds. As I said, taking some of the sprint bodywork parts and teaming them with the basic LM kit may be the way to go, because that's what Peugeot has done, and the results seem to speak to their effectiveness.

[henk4]

just a question, how do you know what Peugeot has done EXACTLY?

[Tim the Grey]

Pieter? He just DOES, OK. Otherwise, we get him writing War and Peace about dive planes, and subtle gurney changes, and intake positions...

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by henk4

just a question, how do you know what Peugeot has done EXACTLY?

You only need to look at the peugeot to see that they're not packing any extra downforce than they need to be.......The rear wing isn't angled and they're not alot of diveplane angle up front.

Compared to Audi....those are some meaty diveplanes on the front of that R18.

[chernaudi]

Peugeot are running the same package that they had at Spa--LM nose, LM rear deck, and sprint rear wing.

Photos from Spa show the difference between the LM wing and the Sprint wing, the latter being mounted on taller pylons.

Audi clearly have too much drag with their sprint package: At LM, they were off in straightline speed by only a couple of km/h, but were faster overall on the lap because of the speed they carried in the Porsche Curves. And Peugeot ran a very low downforce rear wing, which likely contributed to compliants that some drivers had about rear grip, vs Audi who clearly ran more downforce.

At Imola, the R18's were down about 10km/h down the front straight with their high downforce package, while Peugeot ran their Spa setup--photos don't lie.

I feel like maybe I should be trying to talk to Audi about this, because it seems that they haven't learned the lesson the Peugeot had demonstrated to them so many times--if the cars have near equal cornering abilities, the car that faster down the straights will usually win the battle there, especially in the race itself.

But what do I know? But I do know that they need to get their aero package sorted out to give good downforce for less drag if they want to have a shot at winning the remaining races this year. If a car's faster down the straights, it can work though traffic better, and may get better fuel mileage.

[chernaudi]

To illustrate my point, here's a 908 from early practice at Spa with the low wing:

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio..._05_05_055.jpg

From the race with the high wing:

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio..._05_07_182.jpg

And guess which configuration Peugeot chose for Imola?:

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...Course_040.jpg

Simply put, Audi guessed wrong with their aero package, and I hope that they don't make that mistake again, as it's pretty clear that Peugeot are showing the way to go aero wise with the current rules package.