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17 Jun 2010, 15:27
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#46
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 Race Official Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HORNDAWG
IF a 2.0L happens to be used, I would imagine it with 2 VGTs.  |
Not allowed. At least in the current LMP2 engine rules which are supposed to become the LMP1 2011 engine rules:
Quote:
5.1.2 – displacement limit
b/Turbo/Supercharged engines (gasoline): 2000 cm3 (4) 6 cyl. maximum
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(4) Only one single stage charging device and air/air and/orair/water heat exchanger.
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5.2.2 - Charging devices incorporating ceramic components, variable diameter inlets and adjustable internal vanes are forbidden. Adjustable internal vanes fixed on the turbine housing are permitted.
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Rule 5.2.2 is the one that allows variable turbine geometry. I am not sure that VTG turbos can be done on a petrol engine without ceramic components.
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17 Jun 2010, 15:41
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#47
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwyllion
I am not sure that VTG turbos can be done on a petrol engine without ceramic components.
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Three words: Porsche 997 Turbo.
And it's now in the VW/Audi family, so the technology is very very definitely available.
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17 Jun 2010, 15:44
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#48
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,074
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n.m.
L.P. 
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Probae esti in segetem sunt deteriorem datae fruges, tamen ipsae suaptae enitent
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17 Jun 2010, 15:57
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#49
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Race Official Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor_RO
Three words: Porsche 997 Turbo.
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... which uses "temperature-resistant materials derived from aerospace technology". It is not clear whether BorgWarner and Porsche use a ceramic material or some special alloy. Hence my remark.
However, the R15+ V10 TDI does use a VTG turbo that can withstand temperatures about 1000°C and is within the current ACO rules. I don't know if that is enough for a race petrol engine.
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17 Jun 2010, 16:24
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#50
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,922
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I was trying to say that, because of that, Audi have access to the petrol VTG technology, so adapting it to a racing engine shouldn't be too hard with the concentration of brains in that technical squad.
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When in doubt? C4.
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17 Jun 2010, 17:07
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#51
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Race Official Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,044
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Ok, but I am trying to say that the Porsche VTG turbo might use ceramic turning vanes, which are forbiden by the ACO rules
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17 Jun 2010, 17:09
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#52
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,922
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If anyone can make it work, it's Baretzky's squad.
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When in doubt? C4.
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17 Jun 2010, 20:19
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#53
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Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor_RO
If anyone can make it work, it's Baretzky's squad.
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The only way they'll make it work, is if it's worth the effort!
The engineers can be used to find the same speed on others areas for less effort (possible).
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__________________
Visit the 10-Tenths Chat when there is Racing!
People to blame if we get a rainy Le Mans:
Mal, Steptoe and Aysedasi!
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17 Jun 2010, 21:16
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#54
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Race Official Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,044
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They have experience with VTG turbo + direct injection, alas in a diesel engine. I think this is dream combination for engine engineers. Torque over a very wide rev range, almost no turbo lag and very good fuel economy.
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17 Jun 2010, 21:39
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#55
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwyllion
Not allowed. At least in the current LMP2 engine rules which are supposed to become the LMP1 2011 engine rules:
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Hmm, and yet the HPD 2011 P-1 engine is a 2.8L V6 Twin Turbo (6-11 news) , and Audi is working on a V6 diesel TT seems they may know something we do not, eh?
L.P.
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17 Jun 2010, 21:51
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#56
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Registered User
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,500
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Has that HPD P1 engine been confirmed or was there confusion with the new P2 motor?
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17 Jun 2010, 23:30
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#57
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG
Has that HPD P1 engine been confirmed or was there confusion with the new P2 motor?
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NO, Honda engine is P2! Motorsports.com was in error about the engine's displacement and category.
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18 Jun 2010, 01:03
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#58
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Racer
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MulsanneMike
NO, Honda engine is P2! Motorsports.com was in error about the engine's displacement and category.
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Mike i'd like your opinion on this one... considering that LM has always been THE track for "closed" cars, and that will always be the place where a coupè will be better than a spyder, at least on pure performance... could it be that with reduced power as in 2011 the "closed" cars could have a little bit of an advantage also on the other tracks? i heard on RLM that the very high downforce designs like, for example, the Acura ARX-02 would not be competitive at all with the new downsized engines
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18 Jun 2010, 01:11
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#59
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesco
Mike i'd like your opinion on this one... considering that LM has always been THE track for "closed" cars, and that will always be the place where a coupè will be better than a spyder, at least on pure performance... could it be that with reduced power as in 2011 the "closed" cars could have a little bit of an advantage also on the other tracks? i heard on RLM that the very high downforce designs like, for example, the Acura ARX-02 would not be competitive at all with the new downsized engines
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What difference does that make, as the ARX-02 is mothballed.
The ARX-01 runs the right engine already and when equalized with the current P-1s is competitive (in the ALMS). So if it is done right it will work quite well, but there is that big word, IF.
L.P.
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18 Jun 2010, 05:06
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#60
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Race Official Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesco
Mike i'd like your opinion on this one... considering that LM has always been THE track for "closed" cars, and that will always be the place where a coupè will be better than a spyder, at least on pure performance... could it be that with reduced power as in 2011 the "closed" cars could have a little bit of an advantage also on the other tracks?
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Mike already gave his comments in the LMP Future Regulations topic.
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