[LMS] Audi R18 (including Cake Analysis)

[JAG]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Some more numbers from the Sebring test that I was told of a few days ago--it seems that the 1:44s that Audi ran with the R18 in January weren't just plausable, but it seems that they weren't a fluke either.

A comment poster on this video wrote that he was told that at least one of the cars ran laps in the 1:44 range again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rXf0F3S_1M

I've asked for confirmation, but if that's true, then the new R18 should be plenty fast, as I don't think that Peugeot can make up 2 seconds in time by making little tweaks, even if they were sandbagging at Sebring, and I don't think that they can adapt the entire LM package for sprint race use, because of a stockpile of parts and differing aero philosophies between LM and the other ILMC tracks. Some of it will work, but some of it won't, either, because of downforce requirements.

And we shouldn't forget if the R18 is faster than the 908, it's inconclusive where it's faster, as neither car has raced one another yet, and that Audi and Peugeot used differening aero packages at Sebring that week (Peugeot definenly had a sprint package, while Dr. Ullrich admitted that the test cars had an LM package).

These days teams don't have vastly different aero for LM, the latest 908 is likely to be their base ILMC car from here on.

[chernaudi]

Some of that stuff might end up on the 908, but I do wonder how much of a compormise it might be to bolt LM body panel on to a sprint race car. I'd definently wouldn't think that the LM nose would be used on the 908, and I'd also wonder about if Peugeot has a sizeable stockpile of the Sebring spec bodywork, considering how long they've had the car and in the race the 908's performed fine (albeit against performance ballanced R15s, that were reported to be about 1.5 seconds a lap on average slower than the R18).

Fourtitude on the news blog is reporting that Audi will likely reveal their color schemes for their cars at or soon before the LM test day. Also, on the Spa promo poster, the windshield banner has been changed from "Vorsprung Durch Technik" to "Audi Ultra", to promote Audi's drive for road car effiencicy though diesel power.

[gustavobamba]

Anyone know when it will be revealed the official decoration of the audi r18??

[MihokS5]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

Anyone know when it will be revealed the official decoration of the audi r18??

I don't think anyone knows an exact date yet

[chernaudi]

The Fourtitude news blog post says either immediately before or during the LM test weekend, and likely at Le Mans.

[knighty]

cough.....colours, my fave subject, well lets bring on the serious speculation then!.......I reckon it will be some kinda silver pattern

oh f&*k that...... someone show me an engine bay image....... I will crawl over broken glass to see that.........also I'm keen to see if this thing will be belching black smoke like it was on several scenes from the sebring footage.......oh I'm so desperate to see a diesel get black flagged for visible exhaust emissions, but saying that I think the AMR boys will also be in with a shout too!!!

[joeb]

Originally Posted by knighty

cough.....colours, my fave subject, well lets bring on the serious speculation then!.......I reckon it will be some kinda silver pattern

oh f&*k that...... someone show me an engine bay image....... I will crawl over broken glass to see that.........also I'm keen to see if this thing will be belching black smoke like it was on several scenes from the sebring footage.......oh I'm so desperate to see a diesel get black flagged for visible exhaust emissions, but saying that I think the AMR boys will also be in with a shout too!!!

Wouldn't that be great to get all the Diesels black flagged for puffing smoke? and in the mean time a privateer petrol car cruises to victory!!

[AGD]

Originally Posted by joeb

Wouldn't that be great to get all the Diesels black flagged for puffing smoke? and in the mean time a privateer petrol car cruises to victory!!

Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen...even if you have to inhale a bunch of soot!

[chernaudi]

And the ALMS fan forum strikes again on the Audi 1:44 lap time reports. The You Tube poster who sent me the info on the 1:44 lap times said that he read that report on the ALMS' fan forum, and the times were recorded by someone who was at Sebring with a stopwatch.

That being said, we have to accept that the prospect of human error (man with stopwatch vs automated electronic T&S), but even if the guy with the stopwatch was off +/- .5 of a second, it's easy to assume that the R18s were easily running well into the 1:45 range (confirmed by Duncan Dayton on day one of test), and should've, if anything (specifically with the set up/R&D car), gone faster, as the 1:44s were recorded on the last day of testing.

Considering the human error factor, the times probably weren't 100% accurate, but even if they were off by about .5 of a second off the actual times (which only Audi Sport have), that's still quite a bit faster than Peugeot managed in qualifying, and even if the Pugs were sandbagging, it'll take quite a bit of work to knock down a 1-2 second laptime gap, if the times are accurate.

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And the ALMS fan forum strikes again on the Audi 1:44 lap time reports. The You Tube poster who sent me the info on the 1:44 lap times said that he read that report on the ALMS' fan forum, and the times were recorded by someone who was at Sebring with a stopwatch.

That being said, we have to accept that the prospect of human error (man with stopwatch vs automated electronic T&S), but even if the guy with the stopwatch was off +/- .5 of a second, it's easy to assume that the R18s were easily running well into the 1:45 range (confirmed by Duncan Dayton on day one of test), and should've, if anything (specifically with the set up/R&D car), gone faster, as the 1:44s were recorded on the last day of testing.

Considering the human error factor, the times probably weren't 100% accurate, but even if they were off by about .5 of a second off the actual times (which only Audi Sport have), that's still quite a bit faster than Peugeot managed in qualifying, and even if the Pugs were sandbagging, it'll take quite a bit of work to knock down a 1-2 second laptime gap, if the times are accurate.

Pfffffft!! The peugeot not being able to keep up with the Audi. Within reason im sure that not only were the dirvers not pushing very hard. The engines were turned way down to make sure they lasted.( Remeber 07 when peugeot showed up and the R10 sliced and diced them with speed. The peugeot had detuned engines for the race to ensure reliablity. the next Year with full engine performance the peugeots were the quickest by far. Im sure what we saw was a detuned engine and a safe consistent setup to evaluate reliability and tire wear/ Learn about the car.

[chernaudi]

Problem is that Peugeot had the 908 for nearly 9 months before Sebring and did a couple of 30 hour test, and which means that they should've had a decent picture of reliablity going in to Sebring.

Peugeot sandbagging was to be expected, but for their qualifying time to be up to 2 seconds slower than what Audi have tested at in Sebring, is either indicative that the 908 in sprint race trim might not have the outright speed of the Audi (the 908 as raced at Sebring was based, after all, on a lightly facelifted concept from the old 908), or they were sandbagging big time.

Remember, these cars aren't making the power that they used to, so they're going to be slower down the straights, and the more drag you put on the car (and the Sebring 908s were fairly draggy, running at about 95% of their max. downforce), that hurts straightline speed more.

I doubt that the drivers were sandbagging, considering Gene's accident and Lamy's spin, but could the technical people have had a few cards up their sleeves?

Of course, the LM test day will be more telling, as Peugeot should have their LM bodywork ready.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Peugeot sandbagging was to be expected, but for their qualifying time to be up to 2 seconds slower than what Audi have tested at in Sebring, is either indicative that the 908 in sprint race trim might not have the outright speed of the Audi (the 908 as raced at Sebring was based, after all, on a lightly facelifted concept from the old 908), or they were sandbagging big time.

Or that the car has been built more with Le Mans in mind. Or that the track conditions were not as good as they might have been when the Audi did that time. Or a whole lot of other potential things.

Until we actually see the cars head-to-head on the same track at the same time and in the same conditions, all this speculation is completely pointless. We have 10 more days to wait for that.

[FKWD]

....people tend to forget that the times at Sebring are always by FAR better on test days after the race. But its so nice to speculate, isnt it? The Pug should be right up there, so lets wait and see at Spa.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by FKWD

....people tend to forget that the times at Sebring are always by FAR better on test days after the race. But its so nice to speculate, isnt it? The Pug should be right up there, so lets wait and see at Spa.

And don't forget Le Mans test day next weekend.

In any case, between Spa and Le Mans itself, there'll be a lot of "I told you so" from one of the camps.

[chernaudi]

Only problem with the test day logic is that when a car's alone on the track, the true times should come (like Peugeot in qualifying). If anything, track conditions for Audi were worse, as the track had 12 hours plus a race week's worth of clag and debris on the track, and that during their test, air and likely track temperatures were warmer than the race or race week.

All that I'm trying to say is that unless they were sandbagging big time, the only reasons why the Pug should be slower are:

1--They missed the set up--first time that the 908 spent a significant amount of time in race-like conditions at an ALMS/LMS style track.

2--Aero, which is heavily based on the old 908 and doesn't (at least yet) have the same tweaks that Audi and HPD have on their cars (Audi tested both times they were at Sebring with their proposed LM aero setups), or...

3--New car blues. The 908 is still a fairly new car, and that combined with all the high speed testing that they've done has lead to some shortage of knowlege on how the car would do with a sprint race set up, which explains why Peugeot packed on more downforce as the week wore on as the track rubbered in, and why they were often slower than Audi in the practice sessions.

Sebring probably gained Peugeot some knowlege about the 908 in race conditions and what it's like in a sprint race. And I'm not so sure that the original package was designed for Le Mans, as they have a new package for there where in which almost every body panel was changed.

Of course, with that knowlege, I wonder if Audi has changed their cars since Sebring.