Vettel (DEU) vs Webber (AUS) part 3

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

I felt quite sorry for Webber afterwards - he seemed utterly heartbroken.

And deservedly so. The fulfilment of a lifelong dream was less than 2 hours away when he jumped in the RBR the day of the race... then it went to cack.. a scrape on the wall meant the car drove inconsistently and slowly for the balance of the event, unable to catch the funky Fernando

Not sure why he spoke to the British media immediately after the race (and virtually ignored the OneHD & Aussie Greg Rust) when his emotions were so raw...

Webber to Renault? Perhaps not if Mr Petrov can do what he did yesterday every weekend!

[SSbaby]

It’s fitting that both Vettel and Webber were allowed the opportunity to race for the title… and it tends to justify the “no team orders” mantra that RBR had set in Brazil.

When you reflect back on the season, you wouldn’t doubt that Vettel is the most deserving champion. Especially when you consider how many times he led from the front only to retire due to reliability issues.

On the other hand, Webber made too many crucial mistakes throughout the year, particularly during times when he was leading the championship.

If you take out the number of times that Webber had crashed versus the number of times that Vettel had retired after leading the race, I think the results (points) would still go Vettel’s way.

A very deserving champion, in my view. It’s always exciting to see such raw talent stamp itself on the sport.

[OZ_HCR32]

I cant see Webber leaving. Why woud he leave the best team on the grid when there is no obvious reason for them struggling next year? The team is the same, funding still there....they are ending the season with the fastest car.

If Webber cant beat him more often then not in the same equipment he would be silly to try it in a lesser car.

I think Webber and Alonso will need a few weeks to clear their heads and come back strong. I think Mark can have another competitve season, he needs his fight to be competitive and the question will be does he still feel like fighting sooo hard every race?

He has said it himself that when he loses motivation he has other things he can be doing. I think he will be back next season but will will know by Rd 4 whether his head and heart are still in it.

I think he will be competitive, but can see how he may start to slip into a Fisi esque roll of just taking podiums and never really challenging Vettel. I suppose the other thing which will help with my decision on Webber for 2010 is a better understanding of what happened to Vettel mid season.

Talk is Webber was better able to drive the car with the early version of the blown diffuser. When they got the ecu and tweaks in Vettel was able to again shade Webber. That is what James Allen and a few others have said, who knows ho true it is.

Its possible, but not likely given Vettel is no Button when it comes to struggling with a less then ideal car...but with Kers, new tyres etc that Mark is on peg with Vettel if the cars are a little more difficult to drive....

[Teretonga]

The difference may be psychological....
Even given an attitude by the team that the drivers are equal Webber's Brazil comments indicate that HE doesn't feel that way...

So next year will it be a better place for him to work if he harbours ambitions of taking Seb on head first...?

He will need hard headedness and more resilience than we have seen in the last month to be able to do it.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Not sure why he spoke to the British media immediately after the race (and virtually ignored the OneHD & Aussie Greg Rust) when his emotions were so raw...

Maybe he was sick of Rusty calling him 'our mark webber' like everyone else is....

Im gutted for Webber knowing that he came quite close and the fact that Vettel next year will be stronger having won the title. I can see mark staying at red bull next year, they should be strong even with the new regs and the challenge of beating Vettel will spur him on.

[NickoGP]

Don't forget that there is one big unknown for next year - the tyres. They may really suit Mark or Seb, or the other teams might be able to make them work better. Jenson might have another good crack if they are prone to graining and need to be treated gently.

Sadly I still think this was his best chance.

[Razor]

I always thought that Vettel and Webber are like an old married couple. The two will be on good terms with one another then someone will do something silly, argue, ignore each other but then they'll ask each other for the other's opinion/advice and go back to square one.

[Bevan-L]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Not sure why he spoke to the British media immediately after the race (and virtually ignored the OneHD & Aussie Greg Rust) when his emotions were so raw...

Who would want to speak to Rusty anyway?

[GTRMagic]

Webber to Lotus-Renault? (Also known as 1Malaysia)

[Trev Campbell]

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

Talk is Webber was better able to drive the car with the early version of the blown diffuser. When they got the ecu and tweaks in Vettel was able to again shade Webber. That is what James Allen and a few others have said, who knows ho true it is.

Its possible, but not likely given Vettel is no Button when it comes to struggling with a less then ideal car...but with Kers, new tyres etc that Mark is on peg with Vettel if the cars are a little more difficult to drive....

When did these changes appear on the car. Because up until the British GP both drivers were pretty much at a dead heat as far as pace was concerned.

After this Vettel started to shade Webber for pace, the last 4 races Vettel was superb. I think Webber's race pace was identical in Japan and slightly better in Brazil (Until the engine issues) but was thwarted by Vettel's better quali performance (Fractions of a second count in F1 !!!!)

[OZ_HCR32]

They said Hungary was when they got the updated diffuser, ECU tweaks and made the whole system more integrated into the performance of the car.

And I think back to Webbers recent comments about favouritism, if you read the actual quote in total...he knew what he was saying could easily be misquoted, so was a bit silly of him. But what he said is I am given equal equipment and support, but some of the Red Bull management like Vettel more then me. Thats ok, he is young and fast and we all haev our favourites or people we like more.

So was an innocent enough comment but he must have known it was going to play well for weeks to come with the press....

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

They said Hungary was when they got the updated diffuser, ECU tweaks and made the whole system more integrated into the performance of the car.

And I think back to Webbers recent comments about favouritism, if you read the actual quote in total...he knew what he was saying could easily be misquoted, so was a bit silly of him. But what he said is I am given equal equipment and support, but some of the Red Bull management like Vettel more then me. Thats ok, he is young and fast and we all haev our favourites or people we like more.

So was an innocent enough comment but he must have known it was going to play well for weeks to come with the press....

All the more reason why Webber should leave RBR. Such comments don't do himself or the team any good.

There's various reasons why one driver is more 'favoured' than the other and it might not have anything to do with one driver having the better equipment. That's always been the case in F1.

The fact is that there is rarely a long standing, bonafide relationship between two strong drivers of the same team...

Senna and Prost: Senna loved to talk to the Honda technicians in the pits when out of the car and gelled better with team members despite Prost being the established driver within the McLaren team. Prost noticed this and soon claimed that Senna was on the receiving end of favouritism, which he suspected explained Senna's superior speed.

Alonso and Hamilton: need I say anything here... Alonso claimed Hamilton was on the receiving end of superior equipment, purely because he happened to be a British driver driving for a British team.

Schumacher and team mates: Schuey's team mates were his sacrificial lambs - they even gifted Schumacher race wins and there were always rumours that Schuey ended up with the best equipment on race day.

Why would anybody in their right mind want to continue to drive for such a team if they feel that the team is behind one driver more than the other? History is against Mark staying.

[stripedcat]

Well it will be difficult for Mark next year that's for sure. We still have to wait and see how all the new technology(KERS, adjustable wings), plus the Pirelli tyres will work out for Red Bull. I suspect that the Red Bull will still be competitive next year.

Realistically I suspect Webber might have some wins next year, a crack at the championship? Unlikely against Vettel now. Vettel just looks to have a more raw speed than him.

[EGG]

You'd want to avoid Rusty like a bad smell after pretty much any race, never mind that one.

[OZ_HCR32]

Well, in an interesting development. It seems Webber is a better F1 driver then he will ever be cyclist. News just out is that he binned his bike between the Singapore and Japanese GPs which meant he fractured his shoulder. Part of the reason why he didnt hang around after the Japanese GP is he had to do a runner to get the shoulder looked at further.

So he is a tough cracker! Not only can he race at the front in the wet with a helmet full of chuck....good part of the 2009 season with pins in his leg. He can do four GPs with a fractured shoulder.

He didnt whisper the fact because he didnt want the other drivers to seize a mental advantage....and didnt want to be seen as making excuses if things did not go to plan.

SO, PLEASE MARK REST UP OVER XMAS AND TRY DOING A FULL SEASON IN PEAK FITNESS

The catch is it seems he is again doing his charity triathlon so lets hope he doesnt injure himserlf again