Blueing the Leader - Not Always Wrong?

[Dave Brand]

Watching an incident from an FIA GT race at Zolder set me to thinking - always a dangerous process!

The leader, with around 17 minutes left of a 90 minute race, ended up in the gravel after contact with a car which was unlapping itself & had been pushing hard to get past for a lap or more.

It occurs to me that this one of those rare incidents where blue flagging the leader could be considered to be both legitimate & useful. Leaving aside for a moment the wisdom of the leader trying to defend his position when, presumably, his pit crew was keeping him up to date as to how big a lead he had, it raises the question of what are we actually saying with the blue flag?

The meaning of the blue flag is,of course, defined as "a faster car is following closely/trying to overtake", but as I see there's a vital piece of information implicit in that, that the two cars involved are not fighting for position so the car in front should not, or doesn't need to, defend its position. In this particular instance the car behind the leader was obviously faster as it had caught up with the leader.

So, if the blue flag is valid when a car is being lapped, does it have equal validity when a car is being unlapped? Should it have been used in this instance? On balance, I'd probably say no, as unexpected or unconventional use of a flag, even if justifiable, can lead to confusion - the "if in doubt, don't" principle applies.

No doubt Those Who Know All About Flagging (& a few experienced flaggies!) will have a point of view on this!

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

The meaning of the blue flag is,of course, defined as "a faster car is following closely/trying to overtake

...of which you may not be aware.

In theory, you're right, and of course the blue is not an instruction other than in F1. In practice... Hmmm. Not sure I'd do it. I have blued for an overtake for position when a much faster car is making it's way up from being delayed (fell off at first corner and was blasting through the pack). However I don't think I'd do it for the leader, or even the sharp end of the field, but then, never say never. Chances are he'd be as likely to fall off in surprise anyway!

There's nothing I can think of that says it's wrong, other than it just doesn't seem right. Our American friends may have more of a view on this, since unlapping yourself is more of a done thing over there, as well as the expectation that a backmarker will try to fend off being lapped.

[exflagman]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

So, if the blue flag is valid when a car is being lapped, does it have equal validity when a car is being unlapped? Should it have been used in this instance? On balance, I'd probably say no, as unexpected or unconventional use of a flag, even if justifiable, can lead to confusion - the "if in doubt, don't" principle applies.

Having flagged a large no endurance races over the years I would go with using the blue flag in such a situation, which is not that uncommon in races where you have driver changes, especially where you get a pro driver teamed with less experienced driver.
It's part of the skill of reading the race, being able to spot the driver changes and the relative speeds.
After all the blue flag really only means 'Please look in your mirror', despite what it says in the blue/yellow book.

[Woolley]

Actually, good point, 'gentleman' driver in an otherwise fast car, being caught by a pro in the other one. I think I've done that!

[Guinness2702]

Good question!

I've always been taught that, in races, the blue should only be shown, when the car that is "close behind" or "overtaking" is actually ahead in terms of race position, despite the blue book making no mention of this condition.

It's a case of the practise differing from the rule book (I'm sure somebody will bring up the waved surface flag, soon).

Is this another one of those cases (referring back to the old 'crossing the track with a bottle' debate), where I should ignore training, and use my noggin?

[Tall Chris]

I think it should be shown, as it is merely asking 'Did you know that someone is closing/trying to get past?
I thought that the idea of a blue flag was to do the driver a favour. If I was driving I would rather be warned of what I knew was going on than not warned about what I wasn't, although it is a pain in the backside when the other half hollers 'Look out' about something you've already seen and dealt with, but not as bad as 'Al clear left. . . . . . . after that lorry'.
We did laugh, eventually.

[Asp]

In theory, I would agree that there's no reason not to show the blue. As has been said, it's advice not an instruction - so where's the harm?

I'd be worried about doing it in practice - but I've never had these facts before me. It simply feels wrong. Although, my mantra has been for a long time "Never say never and always be wary of always", so I probably would. Like Woolley, I'm blued for position too (might have been when we were on post together actually...), and would never restrict the circumstances in which I use a flag.

[JimW]

Can't do much harm. If I thought that it would provide valuable information, I would do it.

Always assuming that I was awake enough to know who was the leader - I'm not a very good flag marshal.

Regards

Jim

[tim dodwell]

From a driver's point of view, I would say always a good idea to warn someone if a faster car is coming up behind (just in case they haven't spotted it) - but not to repeat the information of course.
A merry Christmas to all you marshals for your much appreciated work.

[The STIG]

I blue flagged the leader of a 2CV race once. He gave me an utterly filthy look as he came past! That however, was quite definitely a wrong decision on my part.

I would say that if there was a faster car approaching a slower one at such a rate that overtaking is inevitable, regardless of position it should be shown a blue flag.

[Robyn Slater]

From a drivers perspective are you waving that blue flag to warn me....or the other five cars that are around me at that particular moment.

I tend to keep an eye no whats around me and excessive use of the blue flag is a pain.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by The STIG

I blue flagged the leader of a 2CV race once.

Now that's definitely wrong. You're supposed to tap on the window and ask him to move over a bit.

[exflagman]

Originally Posted by Robyn Slater

I tend to keep an eye no whats around me and excessive use of the blue flag is a pain.

I always looked on (hopefully intelligent) use the blue flag as a way of avoiding having to use the yellow!

Agreed that excessive use of the blue flag might be a pain but probably less painfull then the results of having to use the yellow

[JimW]

Originally Posted by The STIG

I blue flagged the leader of a 2CV race once. He gave me an utterly filthy look as he came past! That however, was quite definitely a wrong decision on my part.

I would say that if there was a faster car approaching a slower one at such a rate that overtaking is inevitable, regardless of position it should be shown a blue flag.

All right if it's confession time, I once blued Derek Bell who was currently leading in the middle of a long distance race at Silverstone.

He clearly saw me because he gestured the next time he came around.

Regards

Jim

[theracegypsy]

Originally Posted by JimW

All right if it's confession time, I once blued Derek Bell who was currently leading in the middle of a long distance race at Silverstone.

He clearly saw me because he gestured the next time he came around.

Regards

Jim

I always say when training/mentoring an inexperienced flag marshal 'If you tell me you didn't make a mistake you are lying to me.'

Coming back to the point, I would always say never blue the leader in a sprint type race. But, in an enduro, with driver changes and a mix of car classes, I frequently blue the leader (or class leader) when a faster car is approaching. There are many reasons why the leader is not the fastest car on track at that moment, and he will have lost track or may not know what else is happening round him. So ALMS yes, IRL no ( translate to your own series )