Roy James,the train robber.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

A Royale RP21 IIRC

He's in the 1979 Phoenix Park programme driving a Hawke DL19.

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

Bernie doe shave a human side, I've read several examples of his generosity in helping people.

Doe shave? Oh deer.

I wonder if Bernie had James' address from the Brabham order book...

[grantp]

Originally Posted by paddy

I'm sure you're right. My Dad was confused at the time about the sponsorship as he thought Roy had had considerable backing from Royal Mail!

[delta]

One of the FJ drivers who does post on here worked at Brands back in the 60's. So the story goes he recons they were all in a cafe somewhere that the drivers went too and someone came in offering work for a racing driver. Roy took this chap up on the offer.!I also thought the Roy qualified for the race at Goodwood but did not race as that was when the police came and arrested him.
BTW a very good freind of mine was a junior manager for a Jag dealer and loves to tell me the story of how he delivered one of those E Types.Apparantley it rained and in the morning the car was full of water.

[peter thurston racing]

I also thought the Roy qualified for the race at Goodwood but did not race as that was when the police came and arrested him.(He was not arested until december having been chased across some london roof tops but was tipped off at goodwood with the use of a pit board during practice hence he left the E there!!)
BTW a very good freind of mine was a junior manager for a Jag dealer and loves to tell me the story of how he delivered one of those E Types.Apparantley it rained and in the morning the car was full of water.[/QUOTE]
They still do fill up with water! My father raced against him in FJ and told me that nobody could work out where his money came from and one day another guy in their group said 'Roy the money you spend you must be a bloody bank robber' to which he jokingly said' I am I've just done london airport haven't I ' to which everybody laughted and wondered off thinking how funny he was .

[Andy Turnock]

Michael C Brown took this image of Roy James in his Royale RP21 that he raced in 1976/77 not sure where it is,looks everypart a seventies race driver.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Interesting snippet.

I thought that Bernie was once moved to deny that he knew James after he got fed up with constant allegations about involvement in that famous crime!

Funnily enough I read an article in the Daily Telegraph back in 1998 which covered briefly this very issue. I kept a copy of what was a much longer article but here is the part relating to Roy James.... this confirms what 'kipper' mentioned in his post, but goes on to confirm the denial of involvement in the 'GTR' was supported by a libel case .

The Daily Telegraph - Saturday 4 July 1998

The Governor of Grand Prix
<snip>
I ask Ecclestone if he has ever harmed anyone. 'You could safely say that you couldn't find anyone that could say I'd harmed or disadvantaged them.' Physically? 'In any possible way. People make stories up. Most of them don't know me, have never met or even seen me.' He himself raises an apocryphal story I had read - that he masterminded the 1963 Great Train Robbery. 'I didn't rob the train. Wasn't part of that.' Why was the link ever made? Ecclestone says that one of the gang, Roy 'The Weasel' James, a racing driver before his arrest, wrote from jail to the late Graham Hill who was driving for Ecclestone. On his release, James wanted to get back into the sport, and approached Ecclestone, who told him that after 12 years inside, he was pursuing an impossible dream. 'I asked what he did before he got locked up. He said he was a silversmith.

He needed money, so I got him to make us a trophy. That was it. Suddenly I was involved in the Train Robbery.'

Ecclestone successfully sued, after a book and a magazine made the allegation.
<snip>

[E.B]

Originally Posted by kipper

I believe that James won a number of races although he stuck to British Formula Junior races as opposed to the more high profile European races. On a side note, he practiced for the TT supporting race at Goodwood in August '63, however, he did not race as he had heard that the Police were due to arrest him at the circuit and therefore he made his escape.

I think he was more than a little successful, and read he won 17/19 races entered in FJ!
A newspaper clip from the time of the race, along the same lines confirming he 'missed' the actual race....

Originally Posted by kipper

Incidentally, Roy James was a silversmith, which lead Bernie Ecclestone to commission James, upon his release from prison to make a trophy that was presented to the promoters of the best organised Grand Prix.

And also a pic of the 'Race Promoter's Trophy' that was commissioned by Bernie and produced by Roy in 1975. Not the best looking trophy I have ever seen.... but I believe it is still awarded annually by the FIA.


But nothing further re the E Type I am afraid.

[E.B]

I had a quick gander through the FJ results sheets for 1963, and whereas the 17 from 19 claim (from my previous post) seems a little optimistic, he certainly did well, and was the most winning driver of the year..... The car, a Brabham BT6, was bought by Roy, who, according to Ron Tauranac, arrived one day at the Brabham factory with a briefcase full of cash.....

Roy James FJ races entered and results 1963:

B.A.R.C. / Express & Star Championship 1963, Round 1
Oulton Park, Tarporley, Cheshire March 16 '63
9th DNF Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay Accident

LVI B.A.R.C. Members' Meeting 1963
Goodwood, Chichester, West Suffolk, Great Britain March 23 '63
7th (DNF) Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay Accident

Snetterton 1963 Up to 1500cc
Snetterton Circuit, Thetford, Norfolk, Great Britain April 28 '63
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

Stanley Sears Trophy 1963
Snetterton Circuit, Thetford, Norfolk, Great Britain May 5 '63
2nd Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

B.R.S.C.C. 1963 Up to 1500cc
Brands Hatch Circuit, Fawkham, Kent May 19 '63
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

Snetterton M.R.C. 1963
Snetterton Circuit, Thetford, Norfolk, Great Britain June 3 '63
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

B.A.R.C. / Express & Star Championship, Rd 10 1963,
Aintree Circuit, Liverpool June 8 '63
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

B.R.S.C.C. (N.W.) 1963
Oulton Park, Tarporley, Cheshire June 15 '63
13th DNF Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay (Race won by Hailwood)

LVIII B.A.R.C. Members' Meeting 1963
Goodwood, Chichester, West Suffolk, Great Britain June 22 1963
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

Sheffield Telegraph Trophy 1963
Cadwell Park Circuit, Louth, Lincolnshire June 23 '63
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

B.A.R.C. 1963
Oulton Park, Tarporley, Cheshire July 13 '63
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay Fastest Lap: Roy James, 1'45.2"

Mike Hawthorn Trophy 1963
Phoenix Park, Dublin, Ireland July 27 Fastest Lap: Roy James, 2'27.6"
3rd Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

B.A.R.C. 1963
Aintree Circuit, Liverpool August 5 '63
Pole Position: Roy James, 1'06.4" Fastest Lap: Roy James, 1'02.8"
5th Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay
(Mind on other issues? (Two days prior to the Great Train Robbery!)

Charles Wilkinson Trophy 1963
Cadwell Park Circuit, Louth, Lincolnshire August 18 '63
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay
(There was a clip on Youtube of this race, sadly now not listed)

Edit: Found it..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpWPoOwd4wA
Classic commentary..... had to chuckle at the irony.

Roy James makes a splendid 'getaway'!

XXVIII Tourist Trophy 1963
B.A.R.C. / Express & Star Championship, Round 15
Goodwood, Chichester, West Suffolk, Great Britain August 24 '63
22 DNS Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay
(We know why he did not start this one!)

And this appears to be the end of the season for Roy, by now under observation / being hunted. The only other race entered being listed as a DNA.....

Anglo-European Trophy 1963
B.A.R.C. / Express & Star Championship, Round 19
Brands Hatch Circuit, Fawkham, Kent Sept. 14 '63
DNA Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

I also believe that after his release, and as part of his comeback, Roy James was entered in an FF race at Mallory, where he had qualfied on the front row alongside a certain Mr N Mansell.... they became entangled before the end of Lap 1 going into Gerards Corner, and were both DNF's, also taking out the joint championship leader (James Weaver) in the process..

[E.B]

Originally Posted by E.B

Sheffield Telegraph Trophy 1963
Cadwell Park Circuit, Louth, Lincolnshire June 23 '63
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

B.A.R.C. 1963
Oulton Park, Tarporley, Cheshire July 13 '63
1st Roy James, Fastest Lap: Roy James, 1'45.2"

Mike Hawthorn Trophy 1963
Phoenix Park, Dublin, Ireland July 27 Fastest Lap: Roy James, 2'27.6"
3rd Roy James, GB

B.A.R.C. 1963
Aintree Circuit, Liverpool August 5 '63
Pole Position: Roy James, 1'06.4" Fastest Lap: Roy James, 1'02.8"
5th Roy James, GB
(Mind on other issues? Two days prior to the Great Train Robbery!)

Charles Wilkinson Trophy 1963
Cadwell Park Circuit, Louth, Lincolnshire August 18 '63
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay
(There was a clip on Youtube of this race, sadly now not listed)

Edit: Found it..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpWPoOwd4wA
Classic commentary..... had to chuckle at the irony.

Oooops dept......
Just to correct a faux pas on my side, the youtube clip I posted above I have associated with the wrong Cadwell meeting. The clip is actually not of the Charles Wilkinson Trophy August meeting, but of the two months earlier Cadwell event, the 1963 Sheffield Telegraph Trophy Race (which he also won.)

It is worth a look at the clip if only to see the narrowness of the track in those days.

[John Turner]

I think that some of these posts merit copying to the Driver files so, at some stage I will do so.

[TGB]

Please excuse the epic thread bump, but I came across it after searching Roy James on Google.

A few weeks ago I received some information on Roy James from someone who was linked to him back in his motor racing days. Although it mentions nothing about an E-Type, he was definitely a Jag man and loved his MKII's. Apparently he would have them modified to racing specification and even stole cars and made them to order for other people, to help pay for his karting career.

I published it online if anyone is interested in having a read
http://www.topgearbox.com/2011/news/btcc-roy-james-mk11-jaguar/

[riley1.5]

Wow - just read the 'anonymous' e-mail. (see the link in previous post)

I wonder how much of this is true - did Jag really use magnesium and or titanium if posible in the 50's/60's ? Did they build in a design weakness into their engines, so that when raced only factory modded ones would win?

I'm always suspicious when somebody is anonymous and doesnt mention names - what is he/she hidding, or are they having a bit of fun. Blimey - it was 50 years ago - why all the secrecy?

Riley 1.5

(ps love the quote in the Cadwell Park Youtube clip "and Roy James is proving hard to catch" - great

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by riley1.5

Wow - just read the 'anonymous' e-mail. (see the link in previous post)............:

would be interested to know if you read it through a couple more times and analyse it whether you'll conclude like me it's riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions ?

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

would be interested to know if you read it through a couple more times and analyse it whether you'll conclude like me it's riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions ?

Yes, I found it an entertaining read but fiction is supposed to be entertaining isn't it?