[ELMS] ELMS (was LMS) 2012 discussion

[Ridders92]

Originally Posted by rich07

It sure does clear things up. Thanks for posting up your insight, its always great when team members post up their insider knowledge, its much appreciated by the members of this forum. Shame it didnt come together this year, would love to see Jetalliance back up on their feet like when they were doing well in FIA GT, it seemed to me like their best days.

I take it the GT3 Porsche is the one they have raced in previous years in various enduros like Spa etc?

No problem, have been wanting to explain the situation for a while but haven't been able to until the team knew what was going on this season.

Yes the GT3 Porsche is the one they used in Dubai etc, not sure what they will be trying to run that in maybe the various endurance races throughout the year.

Ridders

[Victor_RO]

https://twitter.com/#!/johndagys/sta...01941831843841

BREAKING: #ELMS to allow GT3 cars, effective Donington round (July). More to come.... @SPEED

[Carbone]

http://www.europeanlemansseries.com/....php?news=2149

- Aston Martin V12 Vantage GT3
- Audi R8 LMS
- BMW Z4 GT3
- Ferrari 458 Italia GT3
- Lamborghini Gallardo LP600+ GT3
- Mc Laren MP4-12C GT3
- Mercedes SLS AMG GT3
- Porsche GT3-R

But decrease of the performances to be slower than GTE PRO and GTE AM...

[Deleted]

And so the downfall begins... Interesting how ACO originally opted not to open GTC for GT3 because of, and I quote, "performance balancing would be a nightmare" but now that they've got a total lack of entries they've chosen the easy route. Too bad ELMS, I wouldn't have thought you would be the first one to fall (I don't count Zhuhai 2010/2011)

edit - not sure they'll get many GT3s either to be honest because there are too many other series giving far better explosure for them

[KA]

That's interesting after what Ratel said only a couple of weeks ago...

Something that doesn't seem to have been picked up in the thread is a couple of comments in Autosport's report that the Donington race was going ahead, published a couple of weeks back:
Apparently, Donington MD Christopher Tate was 'working on ideas on how to have more cars' and according to Patrick Peter 'has promised me a minimum of five new cars just from British teams'.

Tate added 'There is no shortage of GT cars in Britain, and people who would want to race them in an important endurance race at Donington Park. We have already had preliminary conversations with some teams and individuals' (Autosport, 5th April)

Putting 2 and 2 together and making 5, there are plenty of active GT3 cars in Britain. Could this have been part of what Peter and Tate were talking about? With the ELMS has opened the 'GTC' class up to GT3 cars, will Donington be able to get some of the GT3 teams from British GT and Britcar to turn out for their ELMS race, or is this a completely different and unrelated move to whatever UK-based cars Autosport were suggesting the Donington management might be able to round up?

There are already some existing ELMS teams also active in GT3, Blancpain etc- AF Corse, and the Gulf McLaren guys who ran their GTE Vantage at Ricard (and their Mac ran at the pre-season ELMS test). I wouldn't be surprised if they were amongst any potential GT3 runners turning out in GTC

[Deleted]

ACO board meeting regarding the matter:



"OK let's just give up so we can leave earlier!"

[lms]

finally. i dont give a damn about gt3 bop at least this might bring some more variety than that wretched cup class would with ferraris and porsches. Im glad there were no entries in gtc when it was only open to those boring challange cars. the ALMS should just kick out the current gtc cup class in favour of gt3. they should simply call this class gt3 as well.

[GTKers]

including gt3 on lms and you can easily steal 50% and more cars from the blancpain....

[ascarracinguk]

Why can't the aco and sro just agree a common formula....surely it would be the best thing for endurance racing....they all need shooting in my opinion!

[SALEEN S7R]

Sounds like a good idea to me, the GTC class on its own was only ever going to have a limited appeal and by including GT3 cars will surely bolster the ELMS grid. With the lack of a LMP1 class in the ELMS the series was always going to struggle for numbers in my opinion. Yes the ACO has taken the easy route but at least they are working pro actively to solve the problem which they should be commended for rather than chastised. Perhaps it's time for the ACO to officially recognise the GT3 class in ACO sanctioned events? Perhaps a GT3 support race at Le Mans would be a good idea.

[courageous]

Would have been perfect if announced prior to the start of the season - Blancpain could lose 20+ cars, have kept a small GT4 class and still been oversubscribed.

People tend to like having a plan for the year - something which championship organisors seem not to understand

[The Badger]

Oh no , nest they will want GT3 at Le Mans !!!

[MitchZ06]

Saw it coming? Wasn't there rumours of replacing GTE with GT3? I think it has begun.....

For some reason I seem to remember the Gulf McLarens running at Ricard without the door blades with ELMS numbers during the ELMS test there, I guess we know who'll be showing up.


Missing door blades must have been a testing thing.

[KA]

The official story was that the Gulf McLaren were allowed to run some test mileage with their Blancpain McLaren- they'd also got their GTE Aston there, which they seem to be running as a race-by-race entry in ELMS for Goethe/Hall.

Given that they're a 2-car team in Blancpain, I wouldn't be surprised to see them bring one of their McLarens out alongside the Aston in ELMS now though.

In fact, if I was in any kind of senior management role on the MP4/12C project, given the troubled time the McLaren's had so far this season, I think I might be viewing this as an opportunity to get a 'works' (CRS?) development car out there for some race mileage, without competing directly against their customers in Blancpain, GT1, GT3 etc

[Pandamasque]

'Door blades'?

[KA]

John Dagys has written a piece for Speed about the possibilies for GT3 in ALMS- He seems to be suggesting Donington might see 'a brace of Audi R8LMS, Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG and McLaren MP4/12Cs'

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...gt3-in-america

Given what the Donington MD said in Autosport a couple of weeks back about trying to attract some UK-based GT cars out, could this be some of the British GT or British-based Blancpain teams?
Donington's very much the 'local' circuit for the Preci-Spark Mercedes for example- the owners/sponsors are only based about 10-15 miles away...

[Juntos]

Well it better be, otherwise all those commemorative plates are for nothing.

[lms]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Why can't the aco and sro just agree a common formula....surely it would be the best thing for endurance racing....they all need shooting in my opinion!

currently both classes have many brands competing so there is no reason to do that imho. theres still like 7 brands or so in gte/alms-gt.

only 1 thing that could cause some confusion: cars like the ferrari and porsche gt cars running in different classes.

grandam already integrated the gt3 class and now its time for the alms-elms to do the same. (as a separate class of course, not a gte-gt3 or a gtc-gt3 mix)

imho the alms has nothing to lose if they kick out the gtc cars and replace them with gt3

only problem is they wouldnt be the stars of the show, so no more fights for overall victory

[kober]

Any news regarding the race at Donington?

The entry list was modified two days ago, and there are a few changes compering to 6 hours of Castellet: addition of cars #35 (Oak Morgan), #41 (Loeb LMPC), and absence of #61 (Kessel Ferrari), #69 (Gulf Aston). The total hasn't changed, and it's still at unimpressive 21 (15 prototypes, 6 GTs).

[AndrewF31]

jeez, 5+1 GTs......

[GTKers]

So any GT3 interested in the ELMS ???
Will ELMS stop if the +25/30 cars is not reached??

[rich07]

Might've thought we'd see at least one McLaren-Gulf?

[Deleted]

Provisional entry list for Donington now back down to 19...

12x LMP2
02x LMPC
02x LMGTE-PRO
03x LMGTE-AM
00x GTC/GT3

Bit of "news" about the inevitable performance balancing in GT3 as well:

-- Their level of performance has been adjusted by the ACO through technical solutions (minimum weight, restrictor diameter and tank capacity) with the aim of maintaining a level playing field in the categories already entered, in particular the LM GTE Ams (the GTCs are slower than the GTE Ams). Accepted GT3 vehicles must comply with their 2012 FIA-approved homologated form on the one hand and with the ACO adjustments on the other.

Also apparently Ginetta G55 Cup cars are now eglible, along with previously announced Porkie 911 Cup / F430 Challenge / Lotus Evora GT4. In theory that creates a very messy situation, if for some reason teams suddenly got interested about this category you could not only have FIA GT3 cars all performance balanced together (which itself creates a mess), but also Ginettas, GT4 Evoras and others also mixing it up in the same class - which would require even further tweaking. ACO is lucky that no one's interested atm...

[TheNewBob]

Pleased I didn't order tickets in advance for Donington, 19 cars in a six-hour event is pretty bad, undecided if I should attend or not. Thankfully I only live an hour away from Donington, but anyone having to travel for some distance to get there must be really put off by those numbers.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

Pleased I didn't order tickets in advance for Donington, 19 cars in a six-hour event is pretty bad, undecided if I should attend or not. Thankfully I only live an hour away from Donington, but anyone having to travel for some distance to get there must be really put off by those numbers.

I'm sure the numbers will grow a little once we approach the race week, but yeah it is looking extremely weak...

The funny thing is that AF Corse and most certainly IMSA guys in AM are far more professional outfits than the JMW and JMB in GTE-PRO! For gods sake just join the classes already...