The never ending Toyota return to Le Mans (LMP1) thread

[littleman]

For what its worth, I don't think you can ever have an equivalency formula that provides absolute parity.There are numerous examples across motorsport down the years where rules have tried to but ultimately failed.

You can only really compare eggs with eggs and even they vary!

[tyronnezx]

well Audi got pole. Toyota just over a second late

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by tyronnezx

well Audi got pole. Toyota just over a second late

is already an amazing result in my opinion, r18 etron/ultra is an updated car of an already existent and developed car while the ts030 is on the road from less than 6 months.

[littleman]

I agree - fantastic effort by Toyota, but my point was about equivalency formula being a flawed concept.

What happens next year if they go 3 seconds a lap faster than Audi? - will it be diesel's turn to start moaning. There are millions being invested into two different technologies - neither will settle for second place, so the argument about the rules will never end.

[Aysedasi]

Probably so. Such is life...... Someone is always unhappy when they're not quick enough.....

[littleman]

But if the rules are absolutely identical for everyone then you haven't really got a case......................

[Aysedasi]

Of course..... But that won't stop people moaning - there are always moaners - even on here!

[deggis]

Originally Posted by littleman

I agree - fantastic effort by Toyota, but my point was about equivalency formula being a flawed concept.

What happens next year if they go 3 seconds a lap faster than Audi? - will it be diesel's turn to start moaning. There are millions being invested into two different technologies - neither will settle for second place, so the argument about the rules will never end.

Agreed and this is the sad part. Other one has to have advantage, no matter how small it is, you can just never tell if it's the engines or other things.

At least the approach in 2014 regs is much more mathematical so to say and plays with a lot less variables.

[adrs2k]

Moaning/complaining/politicing is unfortunately always a part of racing. I am annoyed to hear so many complaints from the drivers and now Vasselon. They have a BRAND NEW CAR. 5 months old in its race debut and they are complaining about being 1 sec off the pole... 1 second is nothing in a brand new car. They are competing against a team that has been around for over a decade and to be 1 sec off is a heck of an achievement. They have a brand new car that has done very little testing, no racing, and probably doesn't have enough data yet to figure out where and how to gain performance. Great work on an awesome car, but give it a rest...go out there and race in your development program and come back next year with a fully tested and raced car and THEN compare yourself to the diesels. BTW, I am an Audi fan, but always loved the TS020 and will be hoping that the Toyota's give the Audi a race and are there at the finish.

[Rennen]

'Moaning & Complaining!?...I thought they were just making a point of fact! Remember 'they' are 'the professionals' doing their 'jobs'...'We' fans don't count!

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Of course..... But that won't stop people moaning - there are always moaners - especially on here!

Fixed for you.

[disclaimer] Not a negative comment on tenths, or any individual poster, I moan as much as anyone else. This post is meant for entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. List each check separately by bank number. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. Do not use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. Postage will be paid by addressee. Subject to CAB approval. This is not an offer to sell securities. Apply only to affected area. May be too intense for some viewers. Do not stamp. Use other side for additional listings. For recreational use only. Do not disturb. All models over 18 years of age. If condition persists, consult your physician. No user-serviceable parts inside. Freshest if eaten before date on carton. Subject to change without notice. Times approximate. Simulated picture. No postage necessary if mailed in the United States. Please remain seated until the ride has come to a complete stop. Breaking seal constitutes acceptance of agreement. For off-road use only. As seen on TV. One size fits all. Many suitcases look alike. Contains a substantial amount of non-tobacco ingredients. Colors may, in time, fade. We have sent the forms which seem right for you. Slippery when wet. For office use only. Not affiliated with the American Red Cross. Drop in any mailbox. Edited for television. Keep cool; process promptly. Post office will not deliver without postage. List was current at time of printing. Return to sender, no forwarding order on file, unable to forward. Not responsible for direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages resulting from any defect, error or failure to perform. At participating locations only. Not the Beatles. Penalty for private use. See label for sequence. Substantial penalty for early withdrawal. Do not write below this line. Falling rock. Lost ticket pays maximum rate. Nap was here. Your canceled check is your receipt. Add toner. Place stamp here. Avoid contact with skin. Sanitized for your protection. Be sure each item is properly endorsed. Sign here without admitting guilt. Slightly higher west of the Mississippi. Employees and their families are not eligible. Beware of dog. Contestants have been briefed on some questions before the show. Limited time offer, call now to ensure prompt delivery. You must be present to win. No passes accepted for this engagement. No purchase necessary. Processed at location stamped in code at top of carton. Shading within a garment may occur. Use only in a well-ventilated area. Keep away from fire or flames. Replace with same type. Approved for veterans. Booths for two or more. Check here if tax deductible. Some equipment shown is optional. Price does not include taxes. No Canadian coins. Not recommended for children. Prerecorded for this time zone. Reproduction strictly prohibited. No solicitors. No alcohol, dogs or horses. No anchovies unless otherwise specified. Restaurant package, not for resale. List at least two alternate dates. First pull up, then pull down. Call toll free number before digging. Driver does not carry cash. Some of the trademarks mentioned in this product appear for identification purposes only. Objects in mirror may be closer than they appear. Record additional transactions on back of previous stub. Unix is a registered trademark of AT&T. Do not fold, spindle or mutilate. No transfers issued until the bus comes to a complete stop. Package sold by weight, not volume. Your mileage may vary. If the flow controls supplied are not installed, this unit will not operate properly. Keep out of reach of children. When this set is used with other equipment, if the picture is not stable or the buzz sound is heard, try to change the mutual position of relevant equipment or take enough distance between them. This unit not labeled for retail sale. Phenylketonurics: contains phenylalanine. Close cover before striking. Mind the gap. No merchantability expressed or implied. Parental discretion is advised. Sold as a novelty item only. Although robust enough for general use, adventures into the esoteric periphery may reveal unexpected quirks. Not available in stores. May cause abdominal cramping and loose stools. Vitamins A, D, E, and K have been added. Not designed or intended for use in on-line control of aircraft, air traffic, aircraft navigation or aircraft communications; or in the design, construction, operation or maintenance of any nuclear facility. Container may explode if heated. May contain traces of various nuts and seeds.

This supersedes all previous notices.

[TF110]

Give it a rest? Just turning a blind eye to the favored rules for the diesels is going to turn other competitors away. That's the whole idea behind the equivalence talk. It's tiring to hear, but there will be changes made or the consequences paid. The autosport interview with Vasselon highlights this. Do you want every car a diesel? Because that's how it's going to play out. Like I said before (and Toyota seem to agree), without the hybrid, Toyota's cars would go maybe 3:27's, 3:28's. But look at the Audi Ultras. That's the benchmark for non-hybrid cars, 3:24's? You can see why there's no 'petrol' manufacturers IMO.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by TF110

Give it a rest? Just turning a blind eye to the favored rules for the diesels is going to turn other competitors away. That's the whole idea behind the equivalence talk. It's tiring to hear, but there will be changes made or the consequences paid. The autosport interview with Vasselon highlights this. Do you want every car a diesel? Because that's how it's going to play out. Like I said before (and Toyota seem to agree), without the hybrid, Toyota's cars would go maybe 3:27's, 3:28's. But look at the Audi Ultras. That's the benchmark for non-hybrid cars, 3:24's? You can see why there's no 'petrol' manufacturers IMO.

The Toyota's qualify in SECOND place of the Hybrids, in their FIRST ever race, and there is complaining. Shameful. Get the car sorted and running for a few races before you start the politicking.

You do realize that the difference in average difference in performance between the two hybrids, is 0.27%? Really, that is pretty much nothing.

So, you think that the Petrol Hybrids are THREE seconds faster than the standard Petrol? Yet the difference between the Diesel and the Diesel hybrid is negligible. So you are suggesting that the Audi Hybrid is not good and yields no gain, but the Toyota does? Can you explain your rational and evidence please?

[Dario911]

Great job for Toyota. Is just behind Audi, and it's not a bad thing for a manufacturer that was far from Le Mans since 13 years...
It's not so easy to face Audi, but Toyota is doing a good job. The car is at its first race, and they know it's just the beginning. Next year Toyota will be in Le Mans to win. This year they're there to be competitive and to achieve a good racing experience.

[kurski]

Kazuki Nakajima discovered this famous event of the Le Mans week. He also received the ACO Rookie of the Year trophy after his brilliant qualifying performance.