[ALMS] ALMS 2012 Discussion

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Probably best not to break the news to Dyson and Muscle Milk face to face though, unless wearing appropriate body armour

Or unless they want to send them straight into the arms of the WEC for 2013.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Or unless they want to send them straight into the arms of the WEC for 2013.

Well, they combined classes before and that time around MM and Dyson were the ones profiting from it....

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Isn't the PC just a slower P2 car?

Not really. It's basically a 10 year old Dallara LMP1 chassis with a bunch of spec suspension components and a 6.2 litre Chevy LS2 crate motor in the back.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

Not really. It's basically a 10 year old Dallara LMP1 chassis with a bunch of spec suspension components and a 6.2 litre Chevy LS2 crate motor in the back.

Not really. There is no link whatsoever with Dallara.

The Oreca FLM09 is based on the Courage LC70/LC75 from 2006. See http://www.racecar-engineering.com/cars/oreca-flm-09/.

[Dyson Mazda]

Not really. It's basically a 10 year old Dallara LMP1 chassis with a bunch of spec suspension components and a 6.2 litre Chevy LS2 crate motor in the back.

I think it began its life as a Courage, but yeah a smaller restrictor and a bigger wing should bring that car on terms with the LMP2 cars. Also if you combine the classes you probably want the proper LMP2's to have a slight advantage, maybe around a 1 sec gap at Sebring.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Not really. There is no link whatsoever with Dallara.

The Oreca FLM09 is based on the Courage LC70/LC75 from 2006. See http://www.racecar-engineering.com/cars/oreca-flm-09/.

Brain fart, I confused my uncompetitive chassis manfacturers.

[gwyllion]

Dallara an uncompetitive chassis manufacturer? Have you seen their single seaters? The Dallara SP1 was a very decent LMP car.

The Oreca 03, which is based on the same tub, did quite less in LMP2 last year.

[Nick6]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

Brain fart, I confused my uncompetitive chassis manfacturers.

Shouldn't be a difficult thing for a Picchio fan to do, but who am I to judge?

[pach233]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

Brain fart, I confused my uncompetitive chassis manfacturers.

Really? That's an extremely ignorant statement. Dallara built the 333Sp, Toyota Gt-One and the Audi R8 as well as having decent success with the SP1. They also built a very successful DP for Wayne Taylor to run in your beloved Grand-Am series. All the while building F3 and Indy Cars among other open-wheelers. Ironic somebody with the handle picchio fan talking about uncompetitive chassis manufacturers.

[chernaudi]

And with the exception of the R8C, all Audi LMPs have been built by Dallara, including the R18 series.

[Nick6]

Picchio vs. Dallara who wins?


LOL!

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And with the exception of the R8C, all Audi LMPs have been built by Dallara, including the R18 series.

Only the tub of the Audi LMP cars is built by Dallara. The production of other carbon components (body parts, wing, ...) is outsourced to other subcontractors such as Gerg/KLK.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And with the exception of the R8C, all Audi LMPs have been built by Dallara, including the R18 series.

But Dallara did not design and engineer them, they just built them.

[chernaudi]

But that is the Audi model--design everything yourself, but unless it's the engine, it's subcontractor time: Dallara for the tubs, Ricardo (R8) or XTrac (R10 onwards) for gearbox internals, Bosch for electronics, someone else for body panels and other CFC work, etc.

I believe that Peugeot ended up following a similar model, in that a lot of those things were subcontracted--the tub was supposed to be originally built by Dallara/ATR, but Dassault ultimately made them for the original 908 (I don't think it was ever determined who built the new 908 tubs).

TMG is a lot closer to a whole DIY deal for whole race cars, but until the F1 stuff came in, TMG had to license tub construction to Dallara for the GT-One.

This all compares against Lola and Courage/Oreca, who build their own tubs and bodywork, but sell to teams who have their own engine deals.

The closest thing that we have to a DIY constructor right now in the ALMS/WEC is HPD, who now build their own chassis (even if based heavily on the Courage/Oreca LC70 family), and their own engines. Only thing I don't think that HPD does by themselves now is engine electronics (McLaren/FreeScale, possibly Continental) and the gearbox internals, which are either Hewland (like the older ARX-family) or maybe now XTrac.

[Nick6]

Besides Porsche, I don't think anyone builds their own gearboxes.