[ALMS] ALMS 2012 Discussion

[Livininthinair]

Problems, solutions, different problems, different solutions...
Its funny that one year ago we all though the ALMS would die due to lack of grid size, now with the WEC coming along the two banner events for the ALMS have too many participants and now competition. Some ways to look at this as good, some ways to look at this as yet another death nell for ALMS - evolve or die... The fact that more factory teams are looking into sportscar/endurance racing is a positive on all fronts but if the ALMS does not market itself as different from everyone else (hey come race your LMP1 car here) no one will know. Who wants to spend that much on a car and have nowhere to race it and be almost guaranteed to not win...
Like I said good problems, bad problems... Hey Scott - Evolve Or Die...

[FstrthnU]

Originally Posted by JAG

OAK looking to enter the ALMS, must say it doesn't give you a great deal of confidence in how much support the series has from home grown manufactuers and teams, when people like Riley still only have their P2 on the drawing board.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/viewAr...D88EC992C5D388

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...i-notebook/P2/

About the 2nd article, there's also a rumor on another manufacturer entering the WEC, in addition to Aston Martin Racing still pondering one last run with the DBR1-2 in the ALMS

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Livininthinair

Problems, solutions, different problems, different solutions...
Its funny that one year ago we all though the ALMS would die due to lack of grid size, now with the WEC coming along the two banner events for the ALMS have too many participants and now competition.

I'm guessing the car counts are set by some sort of FIA guideline about the maximum number of cars per a track given it's size. Right? Or is it something else? It just seems odd because I remember races at Daytona and Sebring not all that long ago where there were so many cars that they would put a stationary camera at turn 1 of the first lap and there would be cars going through there for the first time for like 2 minutes. Ok, they were mainly Porsches, but you get the point.

Is there any possible way to ignore those car count rules? I'm guessing not considering we're talking about WEC races.

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

About the 2nd article, there's also a rumor on another manufacturer entering the WEC, in addition to Aston Martin Racing still pondering one last run with the DBR1-2 in the ALMS

Well, there will be a Lola-Aston if some privateer is willing to pay to run one. They aren't going to spend their own money to run one. I doubt there are any privateers looking to borrow an Aston, but who knows. It was a competitive package last year.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

About the 2nd article, there's also a rumor on another manufacturer entering the WEC, in addition to Aston Martin Racing still pondering one last run with the DBR1-2 in the ALMS

A works Honda entry could be quite positive for the ALMS if they opt to send machinery over there. It has to be them surely?

[Livininthinair]

There is no way to ignore car counts if you want the FIA on board + especially road Atlanta too many cars is not a good idea. Who knows mabey Circuit of the Americas? Times are changing...

I remember TK talking at Petit this year that if the same car density (cars to track ratio) was the same between LeMans and Petit the grid size (car count) would be over 100 cars at La Sarthe...

[Livininthinair]

Sorry Double again, taking a long time to upload today...

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Livininthinair

I remember TK talking at Petit this year that if the same car density (cars to track ratio) was the same between LeMans and Petit the grid size (car count) would be over 100 cars at La Sarthe...

Proper order ..... they could build a seperate pits for the GTE field ..... like down by the Alain Prost kart track , like a temp pits .

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

The ALMS needs to make a play for WEC manufacturers like Toyota and Honda to sell their P1 engines into private hands for fitment into any chassis. That way the ALMS can potentially find a balance between factory names (both brands and drivers) and private American teams that can sustain programs long term through selling seats (and sponsorship), like is currently done in IndyCar. Essentially, ALMS needs to look at the many ways they can make LMP1 a profitable platform for American racing teams and we won't need the full European grids at Sebring and Petit, plus the series will have more consistent grids so the big teams will be at every event (and perhaps Le Mans - if the rules are balanced correctly there).

Chris

Have to agree, the overwhelming priority is to attract more season long entries, get the likes of Audi NA etc. back in the series, the series shouldn't be reliant upon two races being part of the WEC.

For what it's worth I think the ALMS will continue to grow, if the series can't attract R18's good luck to US DTM bringing in half a dozen A5's, M3's and Merc's apiece, GA too doesn't look lito be kegaining much momentum, those are the series direct rivals, not the WEC.

[Jonerz]

I think we've said it, but the problem with the ALMS is there is no reason to enter the ALMS, no unique selling point. And even if another Pickett-type person wanted to enter there aren't many LMP1 options for him to consider.

HPD ARX-03
Oak Pescarolo?
Lola Toyota(maybe?)

You would have to be fairly enterprising to bring in a new engine like the rumored Cossie and equally well funded to take an existing engine and pop it into a mass-produced P1 chassis. If the ALMS keeps the "grandfathered" cars and balances them well with the new cars that provides a reasonable opportunity to flesh out the grid for a couple years before the old cars simply cannot be serviced any longer.

If there was a marketing reason for Toyota and Honda to provide LMP1 engines to the ALMS at a reasonable cost that can be installed into any chassis that would be huge. In fact, if a Bob Stallings or Greg Pickett or Roger Penske had good reason to buy a Roush-Lola the series would be better subscribed, but the ALMS has nothing to hang its hat on to defray or cover the costs of an LMP1 or even an LMP2 program. The rich gentleman whose ROI is a bit fuzzier has Grand-Am to play in. The ALMS needs to be attractive to premium brands like Ferrari and Patron as well as more mass-appeal brands like, say, Klein Tools and Lowes.

Chris

[AGD]

Originally Posted by JAG

For what it's worth I think the ALMS will continue to grow, if the series can't attract R18's good luck to US DTM bringing in half a dozen A5's, M3's and Merc's apiece, GA too doesn't look lito be kegaining much momentum, those are the series direct rivals, not the WEC.

Other domestic series are competition for the ALMS for sure, but the WEC is a direct rival too. Teams like Level 5, Krohn, and maybe Risi (we'll see about that one) may have had more involvement in the ALMS if it wasn't for the WEC. The same can be said about Audi and others.

I don't blame the ACO for setting up a world championship now that there is some interest in doing so, but they need to do a better job coordinating things with their partners. They gave the LMS almost no coverage at all during their shared races and we saw that they did to Petit. It screws over the businesses, but more importantly, it screws over the fans. Ugh. It's just sickening to see us build up a great sports car event only to see the ACO flush the hard work down the drain. And for what? Some of Bahrain's dirty money?

I bloody hope that losing Petit wasn't part of some deal to get the DeltaWang in the 24 hours.

[Simmi]

You really can't put all this on the ACO now when it comes to the WEC. The FIA has to take equal-to or a touch more of the brunt when it comes to the inclusion of Bahrain.

I think some people think it's been put in as a direct replacement for Petit. It honestly sounds like Petit was on the way out regardless. The real issue is the 'unavoidable' date clash.

For me the WEC organisers will need to provide reasoning for this date rather than the fact it was the only one they could pick.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Simmi

You really can't put all this on the ACO now when it comes to the WEC. The FIA has to take equal-to or a touch more of the brunt when it comes to the inclusion of Bahrain.

I think some people think it's been put in as a direct replacement for Petit. It honestly sounds like Petit was on the way out regardless. The real issue is the 'unavoidable' date clash.

For me the WEC organisers will need to provide reasoning for this date rather than the fact it was the only one they could pick.

Yeah, I agree with all the stuff you're saying here. Like I said earlier, I have been expecting for Petit to not be in the WEC for quite some time and I also thought that there would be few European teams that came to Petit this year because of the tight scheduling during the September-October period. Still, I never expected this. It's unacceptable IMO. Even if Petit isn't part of the WEC, you have to give the race a shot to shine.

I wonder how Hindy and the other media guys (Dagys, etc.) will handle the situation.

[Purist]

I'm going to laugh if Audi, Peugeot, Toyota, AF Corsa, or any combination thereof of major players indicate they would go to Georgia instead. If they're already not happy about it, why not make that threat? What's the ACO going to be able to do to them? The ACO can't afford to threaten their LM24 invites, because if they're called on the bluff, they lose a hell of a lot more than the manufacturers might.

If the FIA tries anything, and they don't hold the card of Le Mans itself, the manufacturers can say "screw you" to them. The automakers will NOT be interested in joining F1, or any FIA series, if the FIA tries to mess with their substantial investments in Le Mans racing.

Also, F1 would be the only alternative that offers real exposure, and there aren't enough team slots left to have much of a bargaining chip with manufacturers who aren't already in. And Honda, Toyota, and BMW all pulled out recently, so the FIA isn't going to be able to convince them back anytime soon. Audi isn't interested either, since the Global Engine Formula (or whatever it was) has been dropped.

So, again, I'm kind of hoping the factory teams tell the organizers where they can shove it when it comes to Bahrain, especially if the civil unrest really heats up again.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by AGD

I wonder how Hindy and the other media guys (Dagys, etc.) will handle the situation.

It hits these guys and I've also seen a few drivers complaining on twitter today about the clash. Guy Smith and Richard Westbrook - two guys who you'd imagine would have hoped to have a foot in both championships next year.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Purist

So, again, I'm kind of hoping the factory teams tell the organizers where they can shove it when it comes to Bahrain, especially if the civil unrest really heats up again.

I could see Toyota going to Petit instead of Bahrain. Maybe some of the lesser teams that aren't in real championship contention might choose Petit over Bahrain. We'll see. It could be a way for someone to get a big publicity win in somewhat easy fashion. I don't think beating Muscle Milk will be easy if they have an HPD, but easier I guess would be the word. It could be a way for Toyota to make headlines in an important market. We'll see.