Welcoming AmericanLeMansFans refugees.

 
Home Forum News F1 Predictions T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising IRC Chat  
Site Partners: Race Cars For Sale Crash.Net MarshalsGuide.com MotorsportAds MotorsTV » 23-05 11:05 : ATOM CUP RD 1 : SILVERSTONE GP  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   10-Tenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > National & International Single Seaters


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 16 Jul 2012, 14:12   #166
Peat
Veteran
 
Peat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
United Kingdom
South Oxfordshire
Posts: 1,269
Peat should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridPeat should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridPeat should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Hi Domonic,

Sorry, i could have reigned in my sweeping statement. Fair play to you. Enjoyment is key. If you have the budget available and enjoy doing it then there is nothing else left to be said.

I just find it almost tragic watching some of these lads throwing every last penny at it in the belief that it is their stepping stone to Formula One stardom. But, i guess that's how all these teams survive and it creates/sustains jobs. If they want to spend the money, let them.

The point i was hamfistedly getting to was that the budget leap required to progress from BARC Renault to F3, and F2 to GP2/WSR is unattainable if you are already maxed out.
Peat is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Jul 2012, 14:27   #167
FFfan
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 259
FFfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFFfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFFfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peat View Post
Hi Domonic,

Sorry, i could have reigned in my sweeping statement. Fair play to you. Enjoyment is key. If you have the budget available and enjoy doing it then there is nothing else left to be said.

I just find it almost tragic watching some of these lads throwing every last penny at it in the belief that it is their stepping stone to Formula One stardom. But, i guess that's how all these teams survive and it creates/sustains jobs. If they want to spend the money, let them.

The point i was hamfistedly getting to was that the budget leap required to progress from BARC Renault to F3, and F2 to GP2/WSR is unattainable if you are already maxed out.
Thanks Peat & no need to apologise; no offence was taken. Yes I agree with what you are saying & I heard the extreme case of someone recently renting out their own house and living in a caravan in their front garden to keep their son going in a junior formula & of course there is the well documented case of Nigel Mansell selling his house to keep his Formula Ford career alive.

I think you need to be realistic. As I said we know that Scott is highly unlikely to make it to F1 but that is probably true of many drivers far more well heeled than he is. But given the opportunity he would have loved to have run in F2 this season & I believe he would have done a good job and sure it may not have led to anything more but a season in a 500bhp car and driving on some top circuits would still have been fun
FFfan is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Jul 2012, 14:27   #168
kurski
Veteran
 
kurski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Finland
Siilinjärvi
Posts: 771
kurski should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deemun View Post
I think the writing is pretty much on the wall for this championship. 16 cars with a core of only a dozen or so regular drivers is not sustainable. It only has one more season before it has to renew it's FIA status and with so many competing championships something has to give.
I think it is ridiculous that the Formula 2 can also use the name of the FIA as the series is totally bad and GP2/WSR 3.5 are better series.

Formula 2 champions anyone has not risen up to Formula One series and Soucek is not now drive anywhere when SunRed has not brought another cars according and Stoneman is moved P1 Supertock. If Luciano Bacheta to win the championship I'm not so sure that he will to move GP2 or WSR 3.5 series.
kurski is online now  
__________________
“Fernando Alonso has revealed that he would like to contest the 24 Hours of Le Mans, the world’s oldest and most famous sports car race"
Quote
Old 16 Jul 2012, 14:42   #169
FFfan
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 259
FFfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFFfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFFfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurski View Post
I think it is ridiculous that the Formula 2 can also use the name of the FIA as the series is totally bad and GP2/WSR 3.5 are better series.

Formula 2 champions anyone has not risen up to Formula One series and Soucek is not now drive anywhere when SunRed has not brought another cars according and Stoneman is moved P1 Supertock. If Luciano Bacheta to win the championship I'm not so sure that he will to move GP2 or WSR 3.5 series.
F2 is a sanctioned FIA championship & that is why it is entitled to run under the title FIA F2. Max Mosely was responsible for the category being re-activated and Jonathan Palmer's MSV organisation won the tender to run the championship back in 2008.

It is not "totally bad" but just catering for a different market place to GP2 or WSBR. Whether or not, as has already been pointed out, it will continue for much longer in the current climate is another matter. Now that Mosely has left the FIA I don't think that it has many allies and drivers that can afford to compete seem to prefer GP3 which puts them with the European F1 Grand Prix.

But Jonathan Palmer is a shrewd business man if nothing else and I'm sure he is planning his next move. FPA served him well for 13 years all be it with it going through a make over and re-generation or two during that period but essentially it remained the same and then he sold the cars on to a race school abroad. Love him or hate him you have to admire his business acuman.
FFfan is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Jul 2012, 16:55   #170
Wendy Wool
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 31
Wendy Wool should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Any bets for Super FPA returning in 2014
Wendy Wool is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Jul 2012, 17:03   #171
FFfan
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 259
FFfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFFfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFFfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy Wool View Post
Any bets for Super FPA returning in 2014
You could well be onto something there!

I take it you were a fan of the Special Saloon Championship that you have adopted your U/N from?
FFfan is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Jul 2012, 17:43   #172
Peter Cammish
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 65
Peter Cammish should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurski View Post
I think it is ridiculous that the Formula 2 can also use the name of the FIA as the series is totally bad and GP2/WSR 3.5 are better series.

Formula 2 champions anyone has not risen up to Formula One series and Soucek is not now drive anywhere when SunRed has not brought another cars according and Stoneman is moved P1 Supertock. If Luciano Bacheta to win the championship I'm not so sure that he will to move GP2 or WSR 3.5 series.
F2 was always my favourite racing series as a lad back in the 70,s I think the whole thing went downhill when the name was dropped for F3000 , it created confusion in the minds of non motorsport people that has never gone away and is even worse with the GP3, GP2 , WSBR names, nobody outside of motorsport understands it and in truth nobody outside motorsport really cares. F2 has to be the name of the step Formula to F1 and you would hope that Gerhard Berger will see this and sort it out for the future but as there are lots of vested interests then perhaps he wont. At the end of the day people on this forum have to understand that the talent pool dimishes the further up motorsport you go as it becomes financially darwinistic (is that a word). I agree with Dom Malvern (I will have to stop doing this) and for sure I would have liked Dan to run in F2 if possible, having said that I had a written contract for GP3 with a team that has won a race this season for 75% of a F2 budget so I am not entirely sure that the motorsport market place is that strong at the moment for all series which should sound warning bells but wont!. one thing I do know is that 75% of a lot of money is still a lot of money and when you approach a sponsor and say GP3 they generally switch off (see above) mind you they always switch off when I approach them!!!!! and yes I wish the Wendy Wools was still going we could build a 5 litre Skoda, better than the current crop of strangled tin tops that trundle around now, Tony Sugden what a great driver he was.
Peter Cammish is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Jul 2012, 17:45   #173
ivanalesi
Veteran
 
ivanalesi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bulgaria
Posts: 882
ivanalesi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
FFfan makes a very, very good point. The F1 dream is impossible even for A LOT better funded drivers than Scott.
You know, if you're a super rich, you're quite probably not very stupid at the first place.
Right now F1 teams behave like junior teams, they give the rides to the highest bidder. They can't be bothered to find sponsorship or properly cut their costs, but they just find it easy to get another Maldonado, Senna, Perez, Petrov or Pic.
So, when Joe Rich gets the proposal for F3, GP3 or GP2, he looks at it also from the parent's perspective and the perspective of a very good businessman. He's asked to pay a huge sum of money for junior to race and even if he's successful, he'll still have to pay in F1 for many years. So, you spend some 8-10mln until junior gets prepared for F1 and then you need to spend at least that much for every year in F1! In other words he would need to spend at least 20-25mln EU(if you put interests it's like 30+) for junior until he goes properly professional and earns 2-3mln salary! Then you read the papers with Ferrari laughing out claims for Alonso's salary, McLaren trying to lower down Hamilton's salary and you start realizing that unless your kid is not only capable of being in F1, but also capable of being a freaking F1 legend superstar, you got no chance of ever returning this huge investment! Moreover, if your kid fails to stay in F1, he'll need to pay to race almost everything else or being lowly paid to race LMP/GT and you will still need to support him to have the life he's used to have.
I can tell you, this reasoning is behind the sporadic appearances or even all together pulling out of racing for quite a few kids with the funding to go all the way to GP2 and even F1.

Basically right now, you need a father or supporter who is just happy for you to be in F1, no matter what is the cost and more importantly - no matter if you'll ever return anything of this huge investment and start living w/o needing his support. There aren't many such rich ppl
Compare the situation with 15-20 years ago and it's the total contrast. I remember Berger was paid $20mln to race for Ferrari, then Schumacher $25mln and others know much, much better how much was spend on their careers up to F1. Even Alesi was paid $8mln at the end of his career by Sauber. Just put together top karting + FFord + F3 + F3000 in the late 80's and I bet it's less than $2mln. Back then you could run a mid grid team with the amount of sponsorship brought by guys like Senna, Petrov or Pic. With Maldonado you'll be a title contender!
ivanalesi is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Jul 2012, 19:45   #174
Flavio Galtieri
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
European Union
Essex
Posts: 902
Flavio Galtieri should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridFlavio Galtieri should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Cammish View Post
F2 was always my favourite racing series as a lad back in the 70,s I think the whole thing went downhill when the name was dropped for F3000 .
You are so right Peter. I still have my programme from the Yellow Pages Thruxton Europe Cup meeting 1970, amongst others, framed here in my office!

I did support the modern F2 from the start but it's now simply not what it could have been. I think some of that is snobbery amongst drivers or parents that would rather be in a dedicated "Team", some of it mistakes made by the promoter, some of it the economic environment but mostly that they have been outmanoeuvred by GP3.

None of that is the fault of the drivers though and I wish them all well.
Flavio Galtieri is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Jul 2012, 21:11   #175
FFfan
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 259
FFfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFFfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFFfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri View Post
You are so right Peter. I still have my programme from the Yellow Pages Thruxton Europe Cup meeting 1970, amongst others, framed here in my office!

I did support the modern F2 from the start but it's now simply not what it could have been. I think some of that is snobbery amongst drivers or parents that would rather be in a dedicated "Team", some of it mistakes made by the promoter, some of it the economic environment but mostly that they have been outmanoeuvred by GP3.

None of that is the fault of the drivers though and I wish them all well.
I agree with both Peter & Flavio. I never understood why they had to change the name back in 1985 from F2 to F3000. So what if they changed the Formula regs & changed the car and made everyone use a Cosworth DFV? They could still have stuck with the F2 name. How many times did they change the F1 regs or the F3 regs for that matter? They still stuck with the same name.

Maybe because F2 still existed then in other parts of the world such as Japan. But in IMO is all it did was confuse the public. People understood the ladder. Drivers climbed up from FF1600 usually to gain their first taste of S&W's in FF2000 & then if they were good enough F3, F2 & F1. Very easy to understand!

Try selling today's model to a potential partner! You need to strat with a Flowchart & a complicated one at that!! But what do I know? I'm just a grumpy old man!!
FFfan is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Jul 2012, 21:23   #176
Wendy Wool
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 31
Wendy Wool should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFfan View Post
You could well be onto something there!

I take it you were a fan of the Special Saloon Championship that you have adopted your U/N from?
Its on my birth cerificate and my middle name is Olivia...WOW
Wendy Wool is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Jul 2012, 21:29   #177
FFfan
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 259
FFfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFFfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFFfan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy Wool View Post
Its on my birth cerificate and my middle name is Olivia...WOW
There are threads about it elsewhere on this site and one or two others but you've probably discovered them. Here's one

http://forum.minicooper.org/showthread.php?p=97915
FFfan is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Jul 2012, 21:34   #178
p-matt
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 811
p-matt should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It just occured to me - does this year's champion get a Williams test? Because Williams have already used their Young Driver days with Bottas last week.
p-matt is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Jul 2012, 21:52   #179
Deemun
Racer
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 311
Deemun should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by p-matt View Post
It just occured to me - does this year's champion get a Williams test? Because Williams have already used their Young Driver days with Bottas last week.
It is being stated that he will so 2 or 3 possibilities here. Either they still run it at the end of this season but in an older chassis, perhaps somewhere like the south circuit at Silverstone, as I don't believe (though someone may correct me) that the prize has to be awarded in the current car or they simply hold it over until next seasons YDT or even use up one of the pre-season test days.
Deemun is offline  
Quote
Old 21 Jul 2012, 13:57   #180
Lam Pak
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location:
Macau
Posts: 980
Lam Pak has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
ths championship poor tv in asia. chinese ppl cant see zhu dai wei ad he mastered other formula challenges b4
Lam Pak is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2012 season simon drabble Historic Racing Today 23 8 Oct 2011 17:54
FIA F2 2011 discussion TalkToFrank National & International Single Seaters 463 24 Aug 2011 19:12
FIA F2 2010 season discussion jondownunder National & International Single Seaters 500 23 Sep 2010 14:08
Jim Russell Championship Series, FIA F2, musings on the future of F3 duke_toaster National & International Single Seaters 10 28 Oct 2009 22:27
CSCC Support for FIA F2 - Donington 15th/16th August NiG_21 Historic Racing Today 11 23 Aug 2009 17:09


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 14:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2013 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.

Site Partners: GolfScoreSaver| MotorsportWorldNews| Love your BMW